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I have to agree. OP gives off a sense that they don’t know how to draw boundaries well, this can end up with them stuck in a situation that is far far worse: ha

I have to agree. OP gives off a sense that they don’t know how to draw boundaries well, this can end up with them stuck in a situation that is far far worse: having to be accountable to someone who doesn’t actively create the environment they are seeking. You know what’s worse that being a tenured prof stuck going to endless pointless meetings? Having a boss who tells you that you have to. Being assertive in their current role is really the solution. They likely do not have to go to all of these meetings nor allow people to interrupt them all the time, they just can’t bear the cost of people finding those boundaries to be off putting.

low_tech_love 4y ago
Yes, of course being assertive is the solution, and that’s what I try to do every day, but it’s exhausting. I understand having to deal with people in every job, but the problem with academia is that you’re expected to do this all time. Today, the image of a successful professor is one that has influence over the largest amount of people and can get them to do his job and put his name on it. In case you isolate and/or push people off too much, invariably they’ll start looking at you funny and asking questions such as “what are you doing with your time?” (which I got asked recently, even though I’m teaching 8 PhD level courses a year, I’m one of the most productive staff of the dept in terms of publications, and I supervise 4 PhD students). The point is not that I can solve it, the point is that, according to the system which pays me, I shouldn’t. I’ve given up on climbing any career ladder whatsoever. I know what’s up there. All of this is caused by the fact that people in academia have no real goal that’s connected to the real world. Even if they are super successful, they can’t really get rich or make a lot more money. Here, if you get external funding, you don’t get a salary increase; the only thing you can do is pay other people to do your job. As such, “power” in academia equals “how many people you can influence”. This creates all kinds of bizarre, unhinged egotistical behavior.
- impendia 4y ago
  I'm in academia -- a tenured professor in math, and in the United States. My situation is different, but here are my thoughts: "You're expected to..." "the image of a successful professor..." "they'll start looking at you funny..." "climbing any career ladder" "power in academia" If you have tenure, you have an incredible career luxury, namely that you can ignore all of the above. Personally, I have made the decision that I care about my reputation among (1) my collaborators and people in my research field, (2) several close colleagues whom I enormously respect, and (3) my students. My colleagues at large? I get along with them fine, I am polite and friendly and so are they, but I don't care much what they think, and I certainly would not adapt my work to their vision of success. Nor would they, to mine. This rat race of trying to gain influence over people... some people enjoy it. In my department one such person might become department chair next year. If he tries to get me to go along with his bullshit games, then I will smile, thank him for his advice, and ignore everything he said. I don't know your situation exactly, but you might try simply tuning out the bullshit before jumping ship, and seeing what happens.
  - comte7092 4y ago
    OP seems to be under the impression that if they had a boss telling them what to do, then they’d do away with pointless meetings and having colleagues put petty demands on their time… It’s like, sorry but I’ve got news for you.

low_tech_love 4y ago

Yes, of course being assertive is the solution, and that’s what I try to do every day, but it’s exhausting. I understand having to deal with people in every job, but the problem with academia is that you’re expected to do this all time. Today, the image of a successful professor is one that has influence over the largest amount of people and can get them to do his job and put his name on it. In case you isolate and/or push people off too much, invariably they’ll start looking at you funny and asking questions such as “what are you doing with your time?” (which I got asked recently, even though I’m teaching 8 PhD level courses a year, I’m one of the most productive staff of the dept in terms of publications, and I supervise 4 PhD students). The point is not that I can solve it, the point is that, according to the system which pays me, I shouldn’t. I’ve given up on climbing any career ladder whatsoever. I know what’s up there. All of this is caused by the fact that people in academia have no real goal that’s connected to the real world. Even if they are super successful, they can’t really get rich or make a lot more money. Here, if you get external funding, you don’t get a salary increase; the only thing you can do is pay other people to do your job. As such, “power” in academia equals “how many people you can influence”. This creates all kinds of bizarre, unhinged egotistical behavior.

impendia 4y ago
I'm in academia -- a tenured professor in math, and in the United States. My situation is different, but here are my thoughts: "You're expected to..." "the image of a successful professor..." "they'll start looking at you funny..." "climbing any career ladder" "power in academia" If you have tenure, you have an incredible career luxury, namely that you can ignore all of the above. Personally, I have made the decision that I care about my reputation among (1) my collaborators and people in my research field, (2) several close colleagues whom I enormously respect, and (3) my students. My colleagues at large? I get along with them fine, I am polite and friendly and so are they, but I don't care much what they think, and I certainly would not adapt my work to their vision of success. Nor would they, to mine. This rat race of trying to gain influence over people... some people enjoy it. In my department one such person might become department chair next year. If he tries to get me to go along with his bullshit games, then I will smile, thank him for his advice, and ignore everything he said. I don't know your situation exactly, but you might try simply tuning out the bullshit before jumping ship, and seeing what happens.
- comte7092 4y ago
  OP seems to be under the impression that if they had a boss telling them what to do, then they’d do away with pointless meetings and having colleagues put petty demands on their time… It’s like, sorry but I’ve got news for you.