3 ms·

DOJ asks for independent probe into FTX to gather evidence of alleged fraud

20 points by green-eclipse 4y ago

Melting_Harps 4y ago
Alleged fraud? The same way that Theranos allegedly lied to investors and the FDA about a device that had no actual efficacy and resulted in losses in the billions? I swear that white collar-crime is almost encouraged amongst this class of people when the legal system is this lenient towards them, (by contrast Ross Ulbrict is serving 2 life sentence for simply operating Silk Road) what more do they need the Bahama Government has intervened, and seized what assets they had left in order to prevent them to lose anything else. Furthermore, while I now it's entirely unlikely to materialize, the time has come to curtail this legally sanctioned bribing system and hopefully this sets things into motion as SBF's actions were so brazen and cannot be denied: > Another legal expert said that there could be other factors at play, too, including the extensive political donations that FTX executives were involved in with both major political parties. There have been “campaign donations on both sides of the aisle from FTX and there have been political overtones and undertones in this case,” said Braden Perry, former senior trial attorney at the Commodities Futures Trading Commission and a Kennyhertz Perry partner. “I think that this is just out of prudence and out of caution to make sure that whatever is happening is done at an independent level,” Perry said.
- green-eclipse 4y ago
  Yeah I think there was massive fraud. It will be found out, but the legal system moves slowly. My hope is that all the key people involved will be available for extradition from whatever far-flung place they are likely to flee to soon.
  - Melting_Harps 4y ago
    > but the legal system moves slowly Not when it comes to cryto-land it doesn't. I know of 3 Bitcoiners who were taken down, detained illegally and forced to take a plea deal (forfeit Bitcoin) or take a lengthy sentence, and only one refused and won at a huge legal and personal toll to him and his family. FTX was a legal operation and had all the paperwork and greased the right palms in Washington which obviously avails them certain privileges: like staying out of prison and under constant interrogation to apply the plea-deal and likely access to an attorney which most never get. Higher profile cases include: Ross/DPR Silk Road, btc-e, and more recent Razzlekhan and her BF were taken down earlier this year for billions worth of btc and is now locked up and in their custody from a hack years ago and were taken into custody right away [0]. And then James Zhong was taken down and they took billions wort of btc plus all of his money he had in is home and was only later convicted a year later. This isn't twitter mob-justice, this is feeling the wrath of the State for something that in all those of cases were net even deemed Money according to the IRS. 0: https://www.forbes.com/sites/cyrusfarivar/2022/03/17/razzlekhan-bitcoin-heather-morgan/?sh=6589dda015f8 https://www.forbes.com/sites/cyrusfarivar/2022/03/17/razzlek... 1: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-historic-336-billion-cryptocurrency-seizure-and-conviction https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-h...
- awinder 4y ago
  Yeah and then Holmes was given a trial by a jury of her peers, and she became a convicted felon. Welcome to a legal system not adjudicated by twitter shitposters. I sincerely don’t think there is any action that could be taken to convince people who were conspiracists about government money that there’s not a conspiracy of government justice. But that’s ok I guess because the rest of the normal world can just snort in derision and move on.
- jnwatson 4y ago
  You missed the part where Ulbrict put a hit on someone.
  - haswell 4y ago
    Even when taking that into consideration, it’s fair to point out the disparity. Plenty of people have done much less time for doing far worse.
    - Melting_Harps 4y ago
      > Plenty of people have done much less time for doing far worse. Like CIA backed despot Manuel Noriega: 40 years [0] Or wanted mexican crime/drug lord El Chapo: 1 Life Sentence (after planned escapes) [1] 0: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-noriega-obituary-idUSKBN18Q0NW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-noriega-obituary-i... 1: https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/us/el-chapo-sentencing/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/us/el-chapo-sentencing/index....
    - rnk 4y ago
      That did seem like a severe sentence, but he was trying to have someone murdered! I don't know what the right sentence was - threats to life are serious and need serious punishments. Look at the jan 6 people, people were part of a mob that attacked the capital and said they wanted to kill legislative leaders, and very few got more than 12 months or even any more jail time.
  - Melting_Harps 4y ago
    > You missed the part where Ulbrict put a hit on someone. Did I? Because you mean the 'hit' that was done while several intelligence agencies were in possession of his entire server, and even went as far as to fake a hit [0], and whose agents were both aught and then sentenced for the theft of SR's bitcoin? I'm not denying he didn't attempt to make a hit, I think there are many inconsistent narrative surrounding the case, furthermore he was never sentenced for that alleged 'hit' which would have been if it were as pressing as they were for a violent criminal instead of what was just a admin of a website that hosted ads for drugs. Ross was a native idealist whose life was ruined for what was supposed to be aberration of the justice system, but it instead set a precedent that ultimately ends in theft and cruel and unusual punishment: anytime he reaches out to the btc he is put in solitary confinement in the super-max prison he is currently serving 2 life sentences in. Again, I think it stands to reason that if that was his crime than his sentence an and should reflect that, but it doesn't. Personally speaking, I think he was a fool for staying in the US and not going to a non-extradition country. VJ was hunted down in Thailand so it shows just how wide they cast the net to make any of this stick. Alphabay's supposed founder was found hung in Thailand after the take down which has always been shrouded with foul play, but we will never know since it never went to trail. 0: https://www.theverge.com/2013/11/8/5080182/silk-road-assassination-allegations-curtis-clark-green https://www.theverge.com/2013/11/8/5080182/silk-road-assassi...
- amanaplanacanal 4y ago
  We usually say "alleged" until something is proven in court. This avoids being sued for libel if it turns out there was no fraud.

20 points by green-eclipse 4y ago

Alleged fraud? The same way that Theranos allegedly lied to investors and the FDA about a device that had no actual efficacy and resulted in losses in the billions? I swear that white collar-crime is almost encouraged amongst this class of people when the legal system is this lenient towards them, (by contrast Ross Ulbrict is serving 2 life sentence for simply operating Silk Road) what more do they need the Bahama Government has intervened, and seized what assets they had left in order to prevent them to lose anything else. Furthermore, while I now it's entirely unlikely to materialize, the time has come to curtail this legally sanctioned bribing system and hopefully this sets things into motion as SBF's actions were so brazen and cannot be denied: > Another legal expert said that there could be other factors at play, too, including the extensive political donations that FTX executives were involved in with both major political parties. There have been “campaign donations on both sides of the aisle from FTX and there have been political overtones and undertones in this case,” said Braden Perry, former senior trial attorney at the Commodities Futures Trading Commission and a Kennyhertz Perry partner. “I think that this is just out of prudence and out of caution to make sure that whatever is happening is done at an independent level,” Perry said.

green-eclipse 4y ago
Yeah I think there was massive fraud. It will be found out, but the legal system moves slowly. My hope is that all the key people involved will be available for extradition from whatever far-flung place they are likely to flee to soon.
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > but the legal system moves slowly Not when it comes to cryto-land it doesn't. I know of 3 Bitcoiners who were taken down, detained illegally and forced to take a plea deal (forfeit Bitcoin) or take a lengthy sentence, and only one refused and won at a huge legal and personal toll to him and his family. FTX was a legal operation and had all the paperwork and greased the right palms in Washington which obviously avails them certain privileges: like staying out of prison and under constant interrogation to apply the plea-deal and likely access to an attorney which most never get. Higher profile cases include: Ross/DPR Silk Road, btc-e, and more recent Razzlekhan and her BF were taken down earlier this year for billions worth of btc and is now locked up and in their custody from a hack years ago and were taken into custody right away [0]. And then James Zhong was taken down and they took billions wort of btc plus all of his money he had in is home and was only later convicted a year later. This isn't twitter mob-justice, this is feeling the wrath of the State for something that in all those of cases were net even deemed Money according to the IRS. 0: https://www.forbes.com/sites/cyrusfarivar/2022/03/17/razzlekhan-bitcoin-heather-morgan/?sh=6589dda015f8 https://www.forbes.com/sites/cyrusfarivar/2022/03/17/razzlek... 1: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-historic-336-billion-cryptocurrency-seizure-and-conviction https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/us-attorney-announces-h...
awinder 4y ago
Yeah and then Holmes was given a trial by a jury of her peers, and she became a convicted felon. Welcome to a legal system not adjudicated by twitter shitposters. I sincerely don’t think there is any action that could be taken to convince people who were conspiracists about government money that there’s not a conspiracy of government justice. But that’s ok I guess because the rest of the normal world can just snort in derision and move on.
jnwatson 4y ago
You missed the part where Ulbrict put a hit on someone.
- haswell 4y ago
  Even when taking that into consideration, it’s fair to point out the disparity. Plenty of people have done much less time for doing far worse.
  - Melting_Harps 4y ago
    > Plenty of people have done much less time for doing far worse. Like CIA backed despot Manuel Noriega: 40 years [0] Or wanted mexican crime/drug lord El Chapo: 1 Life Sentence (after planned escapes) [1] 0: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-noriega-obituary-idUSKBN18Q0NW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panama-noriega-obituary-i... 1: https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/us/el-chapo-sentencing/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/17/us/el-chapo-sentencing/index....
  - rnk 4y ago
    That did seem like a severe sentence, but he was trying to have someone murdered! I don't know what the right sentence was - threats to life are serious and need serious punishments. Look at the jan 6 people, people were part of a mob that attacked the capital and said they wanted to kill legislative leaders, and very few got more than 12 months or even any more jail time.
- Melting_Harps 4y ago
  > You missed the part where Ulbrict put a hit on someone. Did I? Because you mean the 'hit' that was done while several intelligence agencies were in possession of his entire server, and even went as far as to fake a hit [0], and whose agents were both aught and then sentenced for the theft of SR's bitcoin? I'm not denying he didn't attempt to make a hit, I think there are many inconsistent narrative surrounding the case, furthermore he was never sentenced for that alleged 'hit' which would have been if it were as pressing as they were for a violent criminal instead of what was just a admin of a website that hosted ads for drugs. Ross was a native idealist whose life was ruined for what was supposed to be aberration of the justice system, but it instead set a precedent that ultimately ends in theft and cruel and unusual punishment: anytime he reaches out to the btc he is put in solitary confinement in the super-max prison he is currently serving 2 life sentences in. Again, I think it stands to reason that if that was his crime than his sentence an and should reflect that, but it doesn't. Personally speaking, I think he was a fool for staying in the US and not going to a non-extradition country. VJ was hunted down in Thailand so it shows just how wide they cast the net to make any of this stick. Alphabay's supposed founder was found hung in Thailand after the take down which has always been shrouded with foul play, but we will never know since it never went to trail. 0: https://www.theverge.com/2013/11/8/5080182/silk-road-assassination-allegations-curtis-clark-green https://www.theverge.com/2013/11/8/5080182/silk-road-assassi...
amanaplanacanal 4y ago
We usually say "alleged" until something is proven in court. This avoids being sued for libel if it turns out there was no fraud.