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>Voting for blues obviously isn’t cutting it. Agree, and furthermore, I'd argue that the blue "Third Way"[1] ushered in by Bill Clinton in the US is what hugel

>Voting for blues obviously isn’t cutting it. Agree, and furthermore, I'd argue that the blue "Third Way"[1] ushered in by Bill Clinton in the US is what hugely screwed labor, and 20 years later leads to the election of DJT. Why can't Biden/congress make the agreement that the unions want and ratify that? There are multiple ways to avoid the strike; I don't understand why this has to be on ownership's terms. Long term, (or at least in 2024, which is about as long term as we get in American politics anymore) this is going to let team Red claim to be the pro-worker team. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

KptMarchewa 4y ago
> Long term, (or at least in 2024, which is about as long term as we get in American politics anymore) this is going to let team Red claim to be the pro-worker team. but they are those who are voting those proposals down. >Why can't Biden/congress make the agreement that the unions want and ratify that? because they need 60 votes in senate and obviously don't have them. I just don't understand how you can rationally reconcile party A voting against those proposals, blaming party B for not passing it, and claiming that party A is for those proposals. It's some weird doublethink.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  Biden doesn't have to sign it in its broken form.
- dpkirchner 4y ago
  > I just don't understand how you can rationally reconcile party A voting against those proposals, blaming party B for not passing it, and claiming that party A is for those proposals. It's some weird doublethink. It's exactly the same right-wing doublethink that spurs budget cuts and justifies the cuts by pointing out how ineffective government is. Anyone promulgating such notions is either a sucker or dishonest.
luddit3 4y ago
This is like blaming the abused wife for not helping her husband to stop abusing her. Party of voting against the majority self interests will continue to vote against the majority's self interests.
Throwawayaerlei 4y ago
"this is going to let team Red claim to be the pro-worker team" Nobody sane will believe them; while I believe the start of this was when the New Left captured "Team Blue" in the 1970s and blue collar workers famously became part of the Reagan coalition (and worked with him against the Soviet Union, particularly in Poland), the GOP establishment hates this part of its base. Repeating part of another comment which in general is a repeat of all of this: A great deal of Trump's otherwise inexplicable popularity is that he's a 1970s NYC Democrat just like Reagan in the 1980s was a self-described FDR Democrat and he doesn't hate these people. Doesn't care or do much for them, but this is a palpable difference from the GOPe.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  > Nobody sane will believe them Those blue collar Reagan Democrats that you're talking about are the ones that believe that. Same people more or less. That is why Trump did well, he appeared to them to be a pro-worker Republican in the 2016 campaign and they voted for him. While anti-communism may have been more impactful in the 70s, the Democrats being solid pro-big-business for the past 30 years has convinced a lot of people to vote Republican since they'll get low taxes and the freedom to do whatever they want personally. You may claim they're not sane or they're stupid, but that doesn't win their votes, and they're not interested in long-winded explanations of what Democrats are providing for them at the margins while yelling at them that they're racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. If the Democrats were more pro-labor across the board and the message was simply "here is universal health care / child care / college and strong labor regulations for everyone" then there would be a real blue wave.

KptMarchewa 4y ago

> Long term, (or at least in 2024, which is about as long term as we get in American politics anymore) this is going to let team Red claim to be the pro-worker team. but they are those who are voting those proposals down. >Why can't Biden/congress make the agreement that the unions want and ratify that? because they need 60 votes in senate and obviously don't have them. I just don't understand how you can rationally reconcile party A voting against those proposals, blaming party B for not passing it, and claiming that party A is for those proposals. It's some weird doublethink.

p0pcult 4y ago
Biden doesn't have to sign it in its broken form.
dpkirchner 4y ago
> I just don't understand how you can rationally reconcile party A voting against those proposals, blaming party B for not passing it, and claiming that party A is for those proposals. It's some weird doublethink. It's exactly the same right-wing doublethink that spurs budget cuts and justifies the cuts by pointing out how ineffective government is. Anyone promulgating such notions is either a sucker or dishonest.

luddit3 4y ago

This is like blaming the abused wife for not helping her husband to stop abusing her. Party of voting against the majority self interests will continue to vote against the majority's self interests.

Throwawayaerlei 4y ago

"this is going to let team Red claim to be the pro-worker team" Nobody sane will believe them; while I believe the start of this was when the New Left captured "Team Blue" in the 1970s and blue collar workers famously became part of the Reagan coalition (and worked with him against the Soviet Union, particularly in Poland), the GOP establishment hates this part of its base. Repeating part of another comment which in general is a repeat of all of this: A great deal of Trump's otherwise inexplicable popularity is that he's a 1970s NYC Democrat just like Reagan in the 1980s was a self-described FDR Democrat and he doesn't hate these people. Doesn't care or do much for them, but this is a palpable difference from the GOPe.

lamontcg 4y ago
> Nobody sane will believe them Those blue collar Reagan Democrats that you're talking about are the ones that believe that. Same people more or less. That is why Trump did well, he appeared to them to be a pro-worker Republican in the 2016 campaign and they voted for him. While anti-communism may have been more impactful in the 70s, the Democrats being solid pro-big-business for the past 30 years has convinced a lot of people to vote Republican since they'll get low taxes and the freedom to do whatever they want personally. You may claim they're not sane or they're stupid, but that doesn't win their votes, and they're not interested in long-winded explanations of what Democrats are providing for them at the margins while yelling at them that they're racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. If the Democrats were more pro-labor across the board and the message was simply "here is universal health care / child care / college and strong labor regulations for everyone" then there would be a real blue wave.