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This mentality is was created the Cold War and has cause immense international damage throughout history. I’m no fan of the Russian federation, but they have l

by rank0 4y ago

This mentality is was created the Cold War and has cause immense international damage throughout history. I’m no fan of the Russian federation, but they have legitimate security concerns regarding nato expansion. We’ve been actively destabilizing the region for decades so they probably say the same thing about us. Do we really want to go back to perpetual proxy wars with our adversaries?

_kbh_ 4y ago
> This mentality is was created the Cold War and has cause immense international damage throughout history. This mentality is born from reality, Russia has agreed before to never even threaten Ukraines sovereignty, let alone actually invade. Russia does not care about agreements, or treaties, or anything, all Russia cares about is what Russia wants. > I’m no fan of the Russian federation, but they have legitimate security concerns regarding nato expansion. Russia has legitimate security concerns regarding a defensive alliance expanding closer and closer to them?. If thats the case maybe they should stop invading countries, Ukraines not the first, and unfortunately may not be the last. NATO expansion is largely born closer to Russia from Russian imperialism(in the least for the last two members). > Do we really want to go back to perpetual proxy wars with our adversaries? Or Russia could not invade Ukraine and not openly call to end it as a country altogether?.
- naasking 4y ago
  > NATO expansion is largely born closer to Russia from Russian imperialism(in the least for the last two members). Sure, and before that? NATO has been expanding since the USSR fell.
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    > Sure, and before that? NATO has been expanding since the USSR fell. The year the USSR fell, the Russians invaded Georgia. So conveniently, Russian imperialism has existed since practically as soon as Russia existed. Maybe if Russia stopped invading countries that used to be in the USSR NATO would stop expanding. But it's clear that they cannot help themselves and they clearly believe they have a right to try and conquer these counties.
    - naasking 4y ago
      The USSR fell in 1991 and the Russo-Georgia war wasn't until 2008. If you mean the South Ossetia conflict, that was an internal conflict by separatists that had some Russian assistance, much like Ukraine is getting NATO assistance. That's not what people typically mean by "invasion".
      - _kbh_ 4y ago
        > The USSR fell in 1991 and the Russo-Georgia war wasn't until 2008. If you mean the South Ossetia conflict, that was an internal conflict by separatists that had some Russian assistance, much like Ukraine is getting NATO assistance. That's not what people typically mean by "invasion". There certainly seems to be plenty of claims that Russia was overtly involved in conflict in south Ossetia and it was much more then just "assistance".
- rank0 4y ago
  > Russia has legitimate security concerns regarding a defensive alliance expanding closer and closer to them? Yes. The “defensive” narrative is silly if you can think strategically. The United States would NEVER tolerate a similar situation. Remember the Cuban missile crisis? Imagine if Texas seceded from the union and tried to form a military alliance with China, Iran, and Russia. Ukraine was the second most powerful Soviet and the USSR collapsed only 30 years ago. NATO is an anti-soviet alliance from the Cold War era. We’ve been fighting proxy battles with the Russians for 80 years. Think about that! Why on earth would Russia trust us Americans and our “defensive” missile systems? The truth is we danced on the graves of our enemies instead of working to built a better world. This is a tale as old as time and I fear we are doomed to perpetually repeat this mistake for the rest of civilization. We need to stop excessively spreading our sphere of influence. We got problems at home. Obviously the US can’t back out now…but perhaps we should reassess our future military strategy before we do something REALLY stupid like go to war with China over Taiwan.
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    > NATO is an anti-soviet alliance from the Cold War era. We’ve been fighting proxy battles with the Russians for 80 years. Think about that! Why on earth would Russia trust us Americans and our “defensive” missile systems? Because NATO, and America has never invaded Russia, even though they had the capability and will at the end of WW2. > Imagine if Texas seceded from the union and tried to form a military alliance with China, Iran, and Russia. Ukraine was the second most powerful Soviet and the USSR collapsed only 30 years ago. This would only be a fair comparison if the USA entirely collapsed and then, the free state of Texas, which, has international recognition from both the world and the country that succeeded the USA as being independent decided to join a military alliance. > We need to stop excessively spreading our sphere of influence. We got problems at home. Obviously the US can’t back out now…but perhaps we should reassess our future military strategy before we do something REALLY stupid like go to war with China over Taiwan. Or maybe it's that China shouldn't try and conquer Taiwan?. Like Russia shouldn't have tried to conquer Ukraine?. America(for once) and the EU really look like the goods guys this time around.
    - 4y ago

by rank0 4y ago

_kbh_ 4y ago

> This mentality is was created the Cold War and has cause immense international damage throughout history. This mentality is born from reality, Russia has agreed before to never even threaten Ukraines sovereignty, let alone actually invade. Russia does not care about agreements, or treaties, or anything, all Russia cares about is what Russia wants. > I’m no fan of the Russian federation, but they have legitimate security concerns regarding nato expansion. Russia has legitimate security concerns regarding a defensive alliance expanding closer and closer to them?. If thats the case maybe they should stop invading countries, Ukraines not the first, and unfortunately may not be the last. NATO expansion is largely born closer to Russia from Russian imperialism(in the least for the last two members). > Do we really want to go back to perpetual proxy wars with our adversaries? Or Russia could not invade Ukraine and not openly call to end it as a country altogether?.

naasking 4y ago
> NATO expansion is largely born closer to Russia from Russian imperialism(in the least for the last two members). Sure, and before that? NATO has been expanding since the USSR fell.
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > Sure, and before that? NATO has been expanding since the USSR fell. The year the USSR fell, the Russians invaded Georgia. So conveniently, Russian imperialism has existed since practically as soon as Russia existed. Maybe if Russia stopped invading countries that used to be in the USSR NATO would stop expanding. But it's clear that they cannot help themselves and they clearly believe they have a right to try and conquer these counties.
  - naasking 4y ago
    The USSR fell in 1991 and the Russo-Georgia war wasn't until 2008. If you mean the South Ossetia conflict, that was an internal conflict by separatists that had some Russian assistance, much like Ukraine is getting NATO assistance. That's not what people typically mean by "invasion".
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      > The USSR fell in 1991 and the Russo-Georgia war wasn't until 2008. If you mean the South Ossetia conflict, that was an internal conflict by separatists that had some Russian assistance, much like Ukraine is getting NATO assistance. That's not what people typically mean by "invasion". There certainly seems to be plenty of claims that Russia was overtly involved in conflict in south Ossetia and it was much more then just "assistance".
rank0 4y ago
> Russia has legitimate security concerns regarding a defensive alliance expanding closer and closer to them? Yes. The “defensive” narrative is silly if you can think strategically. The United States would NEVER tolerate a similar situation. Remember the Cuban missile crisis? Imagine if Texas seceded from the union and tried to form a military alliance with China, Iran, and Russia. Ukraine was the second most powerful Soviet and the USSR collapsed only 30 years ago. NATO is an anti-soviet alliance from the Cold War era. We’ve been fighting proxy battles with the Russians for 80 years. Think about that! Why on earth would Russia trust us Americans and our “defensive” missile systems? The truth is we danced on the graves of our enemies instead of working to built a better world. This is a tale as old as time and I fear we are doomed to perpetually repeat this mistake for the rest of civilization. We need to stop excessively spreading our sphere of influence. We got problems at home. Obviously the US can’t back out now…but perhaps we should reassess our future military strategy before we do something REALLY stupid like go to war with China over Taiwan.
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > NATO is an anti-soviet alliance from the Cold War era. We’ve been fighting proxy battles with the Russians for 80 years. Think about that! Why on earth would Russia trust us Americans and our “defensive” missile systems? Because NATO, and America has never invaded Russia, even though they had the capability and will at the end of WW2. > Imagine if Texas seceded from the union and tried to form a military alliance with China, Iran, and Russia. Ukraine was the second most powerful Soviet and the USSR collapsed only 30 years ago. This would only be a fair comparison if the USA entirely collapsed and then, the free state of Texas, which, has international recognition from both the world and the country that succeeded the USA as being independent decided to join a military alliance. > We need to stop excessively spreading our sphere of influence. We got problems at home. Obviously the US can’t back out now…but perhaps we should reassess our future military strategy before we do something REALLY stupid like go to war with China over Taiwan. Or maybe it's that China shouldn't try and conquer Taiwan?. Like Russia shouldn't have tried to conquer Ukraine?. America(for once) and the EU really look like the goods guys this time around.
  - 4y ago