7 ms·

I agree the automation is happening, but I'm not seeing the part where it leads to better lives for the majority of people.

by mehphp 4y ago

Waterluvian 4y ago
It’s subjective and there’s a pithy response to any argument. But for me it’s night and day. I have far more time with my kids than my parents ever had with us, partly because I simply do not grocery shop or merchandise shop anymore. Yes there’s still plenty of humans involved but both are heavily automated with AMRs. This is hours a week of freed time. Again, to each their own. But for me it’s huge and I love and cherish it.
- capableweb 4y ago
  That's you moving up the class-ladder, not the results of automation. As you said, humans are the cornerstone of that resource chain you're describing, for most part.
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    Actually I moved down the class ladder. I make a fraction what my parents did. The home I grew up in is worth millions now. I could never afford it. But a number of services exist now that didn’t 30 years ago. Largely in part to many forms of normalization and automation.
    - ahelwer 4y ago
      It is just fundamentally strange that you are including gig economy work in a discussion of automation. That isn't automation! The people shopping for you are not automatons just because your interaction with them is mediated by an app! They are doing your chores for you and have less time with their families so you can have more time with yours.
      - Waterluvian 4y ago
        It’s heavily automated where I shop. I know because I write software for the robots at some of these customers and 3PLs. I watch the robots do their thing on a big board.
      - ripe 4y ago
        Right, the human+machine system is providing the scalable and convenient service, but the "human" part is usually some minimum-wage or gig worker. This kind of automation is helping the haves, but not so much the have-nots. I guess countries are becoming more of what they already were: the US gets more unequal and exploitative. Other, more socialist countries are getting more so. China is getting totalitarian using automated facial recognition and censorship.
    - pydry 4y ago
      >But a number of services exist now that didn’t 30 years ago. Largely in part to many forms of normalization and automation. The Ubers and doordashes and deliveroos of this world are predicated upon the growth of the precariat. India had all this stuff 50 years ago, just without an app. I remember it not being unusual to have Starbucks delivered to your door in Buenos Aires in 2012. Again, no app.
      - ripe 4y ago
        True story from the early oughts: a friend spent some weeks at the India office of his big US-based software company. When you sent a document to the printer, an employee called a "peon" would pick it up and bring it to your office. He would also bring around tea and cookies in the afternoon. Now that's service!
- scruple 4y ago
  I mean, I just take my kids with me shopping. Usually alone. They're twins and they're 3. These things aren't hard, people just don't want to do them.
cbm-vic-20 4y ago
Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening. IMO society in the developed regions of the world would collapse without automation.
- mehphp 4y ago
  I said for the majority if people. Tech people like us, with nice salaries, are able to enjoy these things more than those who have to do the grunt work. No matter how good automation gets, the government is going to lag way behind. I don’t foresee a transition to any sort of utopian era where everyone enjoys the fruits of automation. I think those at the top will continue to hoard the wealth because they own those systems.
Turing_Machine 4y ago
Given that the majority (as in around 90%) of people are no longer agricultural serfs or slaves toiling in the fields, I'd say that automation has definitely led to better lives. IIRC, the breakdown was typically around 1% lords and priests, 9+% soldiers to protect the lords and priests against other lords and priests, and 90% unfree agricultural labor of one form or another (being a serf was slightly better than being a slave, but only a bit).
- baandam 4y ago
baandam 4y ago
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Kind of my point. A UBI for instance could help with that. But there's nothing but FUD on that subject.

I agree the automation is happening, but I'm not seeing the part where it leads to better lives for the majority of people.

by mehphp 4y ago

I agree the automation is happening, but I'm not seeing the part where it leads to better lives for the majority of people.

Waterluvian 4y ago

It’s subjective and there’s a pithy response to any argument. But for me it’s night and day. I have far more time with my kids than my parents ever had with us, partly because I simply do not grocery shop or merchandise shop anymore. Yes there’s still plenty of humans involved but both are heavily automated with AMRs. This is hours a week of freed time. Again, to each their own. But for me it’s huge and I love and cherish it.

capableweb 4y ago
That's you moving up the class-ladder, not the results of automation. As you said, humans are the cornerstone of that resource chain you're describing, for most part.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  Actually I moved down the class ladder. I make a fraction what my parents did. The home I grew up in is worth millions now. I could never afford it. But a number of services exist now that didn’t 30 years ago. Largely in part to many forms of normalization and automation.
  - ahelwer 4y ago
    It is just fundamentally strange that you are including gig economy work in a discussion of automation. That isn't automation! The people shopping for you are not automatons just because your interaction with them is mediated by an app! They are doing your chores for you and have less time with their families so you can have more time with yours.
    - Waterluvian 4y ago
      It’s heavily automated where I shop. I know because I write software for the robots at some of these customers and 3PLs. I watch the robots do their thing on a big board.
    - ripe 4y ago
      Right, the human+machine system is providing the scalable and convenient service, but the "human" part is usually some minimum-wage or gig worker. This kind of automation is helping the haves, but not so much the have-nots. I guess countries are becoming more of what they already were: the US gets more unequal and exploitative. Other, more socialist countries are getting more so. China is getting totalitarian using automated facial recognition and censorship.
  - pydry 4y ago
    >But a number of services exist now that didn’t 30 years ago. Largely in part to many forms of normalization and automation. The Ubers and doordashes and deliveroos of this world are predicated upon the growth of the precariat. India had all this stuff 50 years ago, just without an app. I remember it not being unusual to have Starbucks delivered to your door in Buenos Aires in 2012. Again, no app.
    - ripe 4y ago
      True story from the early oughts: a friend spent some weeks at the India office of his big US-based software company. When you sent a document to the printer, an employee called a "peon" would pick it up and bring it to your office. He would also bring around tea and cookies in the afternoon. Now that's service!
scruple 4y ago
I mean, I just take my kids with me shopping. Usually alone. They're twins and they're 3. These things aren't hard, people just don't want to do them.

cbm-vic-20 4y ago

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening. IMO society in the developed regions of the world would collapse without automation.

mehphp 4y ago
I said for the majority if people. Tech people like us, with nice salaries, are able to enjoy these things more than those who have to do the grunt work. No matter how good automation gets, the government is going to lag way behind. I don’t foresee a transition to any sort of utopian era where everyone enjoys the fruits of automation. I think those at the top will continue to hoard the wealth because they own those systems.

Turing_Machine 4y ago

Given that the majority (as in around 90%) of people are no longer agricultural serfs or slaves toiling in the fields, I'd say that automation has definitely led to better lives. IIRC, the breakdown was typically around 1% lords and priests, 9+% soldiers to protect the lords and priests against other lords and priests, and 90% unfree agricultural labor of one form or another (being a serf was slightly better than being a slave, but only a bit).

baandam 4y ago

baandam 4y ago

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

Kind of my point. A UBI for instance could help with that. But there's nothing but FUD on that subject.