5 ms·

I really dislike when people use foo and bar. Use something with some meaning imo.

marssaxman 4y ago
That's the point, though; you use 'foo' and 'bar' when you want the reader to focus on an abstraction, instead of potentially distracting them with the details of a concrete situation.
- ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
  Evidently the abstraction can also be the distraction.
- jameshart 4y ago
  Once the ‘programming bit’ is flipped in someone’s brain, I think metasyntactic variables like foo and bar become very instinctive and easy to reason about. You have activated the part of your brain that visualizes things as abstractions with placeholders. The problem is when foo and bar are used in material aimed at beginning programmers who are still developing that instinct and who haven’t yet got that bit set.
- jkingsbery 4y ago
  For example - sometimes people get confused about what is meant by a "faucet," and so using "faucet" as a variable name could lead to confusion.
- civopsec 4y ago
  I think of a crowbar and martial arts. Ugh, it’s actually much more distracting than the serene A-B-C, X-Y-C, and so on.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
chasil 4y ago
Oh, it very much has meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR_(disambiguation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR_(disambiguation)
- emsixteen 4y ago
  Yeah, I know, but obviously I mean meaning in relation to the context. :)
- mh-cx 4y ago
  Sorry to be nitpicking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar "Foobar Not to be confused with FUBAR or Foobar2000." It's linked from FUBAR but not under "disambiguation" but "See also".
  - fknorangesite 4y ago
    Well, yeah. But also: > It is possible that foobar is a playful allusion to the World War II-era military slang FUBAR (Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar Which is certainly how I've always understood it.
    - wizofaus 4y ago
      It seems the "foo" didn't come from that, but once "foo" was in wide adoption, the "bar" likely suggested itself automatically to someone familiar with "fubar".
bitwize 4y ago
"Foo" and "bar" are hacker culture signifiers, like "yo" and "word up" are hip-hop culture signifiers. Even if you don't consider yourself a part of hacker culture, understanding its history and peculiar lingo is probably a good idea if you contribute to a site known as "Hacker News". The Jargon File, though largely historical and obsolete, is a good place to start: https://catb.org/esr/jargon/ https://catb.org/esr/jargon/
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Why does that site have a certificate (from LE) for "www.animadance.org"?
  - emsixteen 4y ago
    Have seen that happen on shared hosting before.
kqr 4y ago
Yup. The point of an example is to let the learner leverage their intuition about one concept to guide their understanding of the other. It requires realistic examples. Nobody has useful intuition around what a "foo" is. It contradicts the very point of an example. (It is useful to illustrate syntax, though!)
- emsixteen 4y ago
  100% agreed. I get the point of it, I just think that it's useless in examples.

That's the point, though; you use 'foo' and 'bar' when you want the reader to focus on an abstraction, instead of potentially distracting them with the details of a concrete situation.

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
Evidently the abstraction can also be the distraction.
jameshart 4y ago
Once the ‘programming bit’ is flipped in someone’s brain, I think metasyntactic variables like foo and bar become very instinctive and easy to reason about. You have activated the part of your brain that visualizes things as abstractions with placeholders. The problem is when foo and bar are used in material aimed at beginning programmers who are still developing that instinct and who haven’t yet got that bit set.
jkingsbery 4y ago
For example - sometimes people get confused about what is meant by a "faucet," and so using "faucet" as a variable name could lead to confusion.
civopsec 4y ago
I think of a crowbar and martial arts. Ugh, it’s actually much more distracting than the serene A-B-C, X-Y-C, and so on.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

chasil 4y ago

Oh, it very much has meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR_(disambiguation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FUBAR_(disambiguation)

emsixteen 4y ago
Yeah, I know, but obviously I mean meaning in relation to the context. :)
mh-cx 4y ago
Sorry to be nitpicking: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar "Foobar Not to be confused with FUBAR or Foobar2000." It's linked from FUBAR but not under "disambiguation" but "See also".
- fknorangesite 4y ago
  Well, yeah. But also: > It is possible that foobar is a playful allusion to the World War II-era military slang FUBAR (Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foobar Which is certainly how I've always understood it.
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    It seems the "foo" didn't come from that, but once "foo" was in wide adoption, the "bar" likely suggested itself automatically to someone familiar with "fubar".

bitwize 4y ago

"Foo" and "bar" are hacker culture signifiers, like "yo" and "word up" are hip-hop culture signifiers. Even if you don't consider yourself a part of hacker culture, understanding its history and peculiar lingo is probably a good idea if you contribute to a site known as "Hacker News". The Jargon File, though largely historical and obsolete, is a good place to start: https://catb.org/esr/jargon/ https://catb.org/esr/jargon/

wizofaus 4y ago
Why does that site have a certificate (from LE) for "www.animadance.org"?
- emsixteen 4y ago
  Have seen that happen on shared hosting before.

kqr 4y ago

Yup. The point of an example is to let the learner leverage their intuition about one concept to guide their understanding of the other. It requires realistic examples. Nobody has useful intuition around what a "foo" is. It contradicts the very point of an example. (It is useful to illustrate syntax, though!)

emsixteen 4y ago
100% agreed. I get the point of it, I just think that it's useless in examples.