5 ms·

The World Cup of Microsoft Excel

95 points by samizdis 4y ago

scubbo 4y ago
Obligatory Krazam links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubbVvKbUfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubbVvKbUfY // https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICp2-EUKQAI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICp2-EUKQAI
- yeetcode 4y ago
  Life imitates art
- danielodievich 4y ago
  I showed Krazam video to my wife few months ago, she's pretty excellent at Excel, omg we both were rolling around on the floor at the impactful conclusion. Brilliant!
- tonto 4y ago
  congrats for kos
ivansavz 4y ago
non-paywalled link https://archive.ph/DgDYQ https://archive.ph/DgDYQ
beau_g 4y ago
Is it impossible to dethrone Excel? I feel like almost every SaaS space is heavily inundated with people trying almost every angle to rethink every data visualization and manipulation program, except for the straightforward spreadsheet. Google and Apple with Sheets and Numbers haven't seemed to make any genuine attempt to improve on Excel. I'm aware of Alphasheets which seemed to fizzle out and get acquired, am I missing someone else or is doing a spreadsheet startup just not that exciting?
- gambiting 4y ago
  If your application cannot open a 15 year old spreadsheet full of arcane VB code and "just work" then no serious business will ever adopt you. It's easy to make a spreadsheet app, it's not easy to make one that will work with the insane amount of legacy Excel code that's out there. It's the same reason why there aren't web browser startups.
  - gunshai 4y ago
    Laying down the depressing truth. Our production planning department subverts our erp system via excel spreadsheets that they distribute it has all the problems you'd expect. I looked in horror the first time I gazed upon this thing. The guy who created it hates it and realizes it's a gigantic crutch, but the will to move off of it is a intracompany political land mine.
    - ourmandave 4y ago
      ^^^ This. We're migrating away from a legacy system with a ton of Excel based side processes. Also Excel's best friend Access keeps showing up in unexpected places. =\
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
      I frequently see programmers bemoan Excel-driven business processes, but what is the alternative? Requesting development support for a process used by five people will 1) never be prioritized and forever be on the backburner 2) even if it is ever done, it will not work correctly and getting updates done will require moving mountains for a second time. In contrast, everyone knows Excel and an intern can make changes.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        What I have watched in a quite well known Lifesciences company, is that some of those people eventually outgrow Excel and get the IT department to install VS for them, and they happily continue with VB.NET.
drexlspivey 4y ago
BallmerCon 2022
rad_gruchalski 4y ago
Kind of orthogonal questions on spreadsheets. Does anyone know any good resources describing how the spreadsheet software is actually built? Especially the part where formulas are written using column and row numbers but when columns/rows are added or removed, formulas are updated and remain in sync?
- RodgerTheGreat 4y ago
  One facet of the apparent complexity comes from the fact that Excel's default "A1" cell indexing style is actually a facade for "R1C1" style references, which can express relative cell coordinates. A column of identical R1C1 references appear to change when you add or remove rows and columns around them because they're being shown as A1.
  - HPsquared 4y ago
    This, and updating of values when a cell is updated. Formula evaluation is based on a directed acyclic graph. If a node on the graph is updated, everything "downstream" gets updated but the formulas "upstream" don't get re-evaluated.
    - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
      I read about the usage of dag in this problem. But my question is how are the actual cells referenced in the formula. As a user, I type =B12C34, then add two columns after A and 5 rows after row 5. The formula is now =D17E39. If I add 2 rows at row 20, the formula becomes =D17*E41. The offset-based approach is what I considered to be the most optimal so I’m happy to see that mentioned. So a complete solution would be a dag of offsets? A native internal representation would store something like: (col 4, row 17) operator (offset col +1, row +24).
- i_don_t_know 4y ago
  I don’t know if these books address your specific question, because I haven’t read either one. Peter Sestoft has looked at spreadsheet implementations: Spreadsheet Technology http://www.itu.dk/people/sestoft/funcalc/ITU-TR-2011-142.pdf http://www.itu.dk/people/sestoft/funcalc/ITU-TR-2011-142.pdf Which seems to cover similar topics as his book: Spreadsheet Implementation Technology https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262526647/spreadsheet-implementation-technology/ https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262526647/spreadsheet-implement...
nixpulvis 4y ago
Maybe I'm just drunk but... wtf am I reading right now?
mcbishop 4y ago
I'd like this article more if it actually went into the sorts of problems these competitors were asked to solve.
- jimmySixDOF 4y ago
  You mean like build "A 3D animated roller coaster in Excel" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVA1BBHFHw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVA1BBHFHw
  - rvba 4y ago
    That is absolutely not one of the problems they solve. Your link is awesome, but factually incorrect.
dang 4y ago
Related: The World Excel Championship is being broadcast on ESPN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32417534 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32417534 - Aug 2022 (153 comments) Excel World Championship Finals - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29521324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29521324 - Dec 2021 (36 comments) Top Excel experts will battle it out in an esports-like competition this weekend - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29520827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29520827 - Dec 2021 (4 comments) Yes, there really is a world championship for Microsoft Office - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14954536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14954536 - Aug 2017 (2 comments) UK student wins Microsoft Excel World Championship - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2847334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2847334 - Aug 2011 (2 comments)
aaron695 4y ago

95 points by samizdis 4y ago

Obligatory Krazam links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubbVvKbUfY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubbVvKbUfY // https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICp2-EUKQAI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICp2-EUKQAI

yeetcode 4y ago
Life imitates art
danielodievich 4y ago
I showed Krazam video to my wife few months ago, she's pretty excellent at Excel, omg we both were rolling around on the floor at the impactful conclusion. Brilliant!
tonto 4y ago
congrats for kos

ivansavz 4y ago

non-paywalled link https://archive.ph/DgDYQ https://archive.ph/DgDYQ

beau_g 4y ago

Is it impossible to dethrone Excel? I feel like almost every SaaS space is heavily inundated with people trying almost every angle to rethink every data visualization and manipulation program, except for the straightforward spreadsheet. Google and Apple with Sheets and Numbers haven't seemed to make any genuine attempt to improve on Excel. I'm aware of Alphasheets which seemed to fizzle out and get acquired, am I missing someone else or is doing a spreadsheet startup just not that exciting?

gambiting 4y ago
If your application cannot open a 15 year old spreadsheet full of arcane VB code and "just work" then no serious business will ever adopt you. It's easy to make a spreadsheet app, it's not easy to make one that will work with the insane amount of legacy Excel code that's out there. It's the same reason why there aren't web browser startups.
- gunshai 4y ago
  Laying down the depressing truth. Our production planning department subverts our erp system via excel spreadsheets that they distribute it has all the problems you'd expect. I looked in horror the first time I gazed upon this thing. The guy who created it hates it and realizes it's a gigantic crutch, but the will to move off of it is a intracompany political land mine.
  - ourmandave 4y ago
    ^^^ This. We're migrating away from a legacy system with a ton of Excel based side processes. Also Excel's best friend Access keeps showing up in unexpected places. =\
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
    I frequently see programmers bemoan Excel-driven business processes, but what is the alternative? Requesting development support for a process used by five people will 1) never be prioritized and forever be on the backburner 2) even if it is ever done, it will not work correctly and getting updates done will require moving mountains for a second time. In contrast, everyone knows Excel and an intern can make changes.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      What I have watched in a quite well known Lifesciences company, is that some of those people eventually outgrow Excel and get the IT department to install VS for them, and they happily continue with VB.NET.

drexlspivey 4y ago

BallmerCon 2022

rad_gruchalski 4y ago

Kind of orthogonal questions on spreadsheets. Does anyone know any good resources describing how the spreadsheet software is actually built? Especially the part where formulas are written using column and row numbers but when columns/rows are added or removed, formulas are updated and remain in sync?

RodgerTheGreat 4y ago
One facet of the apparent complexity comes from the fact that Excel's default "A1" cell indexing style is actually a facade for "R1C1" style references, which can express relative cell coordinates. A column of identical R1C1 references appear to change when you add or remove rows and columns around them because they're being shown as A1.
- HPsquared 4y ago
  This, and updating of values when a cell is updated. Formula evaluation is based on a directed acyclic graph. If a node on the graph is updated, everything "downstream" gets updated but the formulas "upstream" don't get re-evaluated.
  - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
    I read about the usage of dag in this problem. But my question is how are the actual cells referenced in the formula. As a user, I type =B12C34, then add two columns after A and 5 rows after row 5. The formula is now =D17E39. If I add 2 rows at row 20, the formula becomes =D17*E41. The offset-based approach is what I considered to be the most optimal so I’m happy to see that mentioned. So a complete solution would be a dag of offsets? A native internal representation would store something like: (col 4, row 17) operator (offset col +1, row +24).
i_don_t_know 4y ago
I don’t know if these books address your specific question, because I haven’t read either one. Peter Sestoft has looked at spreadsheet implementations: Spreadsheet Technology http://www.itu.dk/people/sestoft/funcalc/ITU-TR-2011-142.pdf http://www.itu.dk/people/sestoft/funcalc/ITU-TR-2011-142.pdf Which seems to cover similar topics as his book: Spreadsheet Implementation Technology https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262526647/spreadsheet-implementation-technology/ https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262526647/spreadsheet-implement...

nixpulvis 4y ago

Maybe I'm just drunk but... wtf am I reading right now?

mcbishop 4y ago

I'd like this article more if it actually went into the sorts of problems these competitors were asked to solve.

jimmySixDOF 4y ago
You mean like build "A 3D animated roller coaster in Excel" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVA1BBHFHw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVA1BBHFHw
- rvba 4y ago
  That is absolutely not one of the problems they solve. Your link is awesome, but factually incorrect.

dang 4y ago

Related: The World Excel Championship is being broadcast on ESPN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32417534 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32417534 - Aug 2022 (153 comments) Excel World Championship Finals - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29521324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29521324 - Dec 2021 (36 comments) Top Excel experts will battle it out in an esports-like competition this weekend - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29520827 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29520827 - Dec 2021 (4 comments) Yes, there really is a world championship for Microsoft Office - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14954536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14954536 - Aug 2017 (2 comments) UK student wins Microsoft Excel World Championship - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2847334 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2847334 - Aug 2011 (2 comments)

aaron695 4y ago