3 ms·

Semmelweis is ancient history. He was active at a time when regulations and "best practices" simply weren't a thing anywhere. Surgeons resisting checklists is

by p-e-w 4y ago

Semmelweis is ancient history. He was active at a time when regulations and "best practices" simply weren't a thing anywhere. Surgeons resisting checklists is new to me. Do you have a reference other than a TV show? My understanding until now was that checklists are extensively used in medicine.

themenomen 4y ago
That IS the central issue though, processes, techniques, and so on are not a THING until they are. And something has to change for that to happen.
timeinput 4y ago
Here are a couple articles to start pulling threads on > Despite all the evidence, Gawande admits that even he was skeptical that using a checklist in everyday practice would help to save the lives of his patients. > "I didn't expect it," Gawande says with a chuckle. "It's massively improved the kind of results that I'm getting. When we implemented this checklist in eight other hospitals, I started using it because I didn't want to be a hypocrite. But hey, I'm at Harvard, did I need a checklist? No." https://www.npr.org/2010/01/05/122226184/atul-gawandes-checklist-for-surgery-success https://www.npr.org/2010/01/05/122226184/atul-gawandes-check... Not sure if this supports the reluctance idea since it says 93% use checklists, but most surgeons don't think it improves safety. > Of the 353 survey respondents, 93.6% use SSCs and 62.6% would want one used in their own child’s operation, but only 54.7% felt that checklists improve patient safety. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221594/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221594/
- irishsultan 4y ago
  That first quote (as well as the rest of the article) supports the view that people tend to underestimate the usefulness of procedures they are not yet using and especially to overestimate their own abilities. It also shows that social pressure is the opposite of what it was in Semelweiss time, even people who feel they are above such things start using them (and then some of them get convinced that they were wrong). The part you quoted from your second link directly contradicts your claim that most surgeons don't think it improves safety (even if the 54.7% is among the 93.6% that use it that still gives 51% that think it improves safety).
gjadi 4y ago
The usefulness of checklist in medical and the resistance to it is mentioned several times in The Checklist Manifesto. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Checklist_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Checklist_Manifesto

by p-e-w 4y ago

themenomen 4y ago

That IS the central issue though, processes, techniques, and so on are not a THING until they are. And something has to change for that to happen.

timeinput 4y ago

Here are a couple articles to start pulling threads on > Despite all the evidence, Gawande admits that even he was skeptical that using a checklist in everyday practice would help to save the lives of his patients. > "I didn't expect it," Gawande says with a chuckle. "It's massively improved the kind of results that I'm getting. When we implemented this checklist in eight other hospitals, I started using it because I didn't want to be a hypocrite. But hey, I'm at Harvard, did I need a checklist? No." https://www.npr.org/2010/01/05/122226184/atul-gawandes-checklist-for-surgery-success https://www.npr.org/2010/01/05/122226184/atul-gawandes-check... Not sure if this supports the reluctance idea since it says 93% use checklists, but most surgeons don't think it improves safety. > Of the 353 survey respondents, 93.6% use SSCs and 62.6% would want one used in their own child’s operation, but only 54.7% felt that checklists improve patient safety. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221594/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6221594/

irishsultan 4y ago
That first quote (as well as the rest of the article) supports the view that people tend to underestimate the usefulness of procedures they are not yet using and especially to overestimate their own abilities. It also shows that social pressure is the opposite of what it was in Semelweiss time, even people who feel they are above such things start using them (and then some of them get convinced that they were wrong). The part you quoted from your second link directly contradicts your claim that most surgeons don't think it improves safety (even if the 54.7% is among the 93.6% that use it that still gives 51% that think it improves safety).

gjadi 4y ago

The usefulness of checklist in medical and the resistance to it is mentioned several times in The Checklist Manifesto. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Checklist_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Checklist_Manifesto