5 ms·

Why weren't lambda grads able to get good jobs? I think that was the main controversy. Was it the instruction or what went wrong there?

heavyset_go 4y ago
If you go on the HN Algolia, there are a lot of posts from students and people involved with Lambda over the years that might paint a clearer picture of what kind of dysfunction was taking place at the company.
austenallred 4y ago
I don't think the assertion that "lambda grads weren't able to get good jobs" is true. Obviously not every single student has been hired, but our hiring rates have always been pretty good (they're better now than they were in the past), and thousands of BloomTech (we had to change our name because of a trademark lawsuit) grads have increased their lifetime earnings by billions of dollars, and work at nearly every major company you can think of.
- MivLives 4y ago
  There were for sure people I knew who got good positions in companies. I don't mean to imply otherwise.
- Dwolb 4y ago
  What are the hiring rates and the average and median improvements in salary?
  - austenallred 4y ago
    You can see our 2021 audited outcomes report here with all of the data https://www.bloomtech.com/reports/outcomes-report https://www.bloomtech.com/reports/outcomes-report. (Note: 2021 outcomes report is very recent as you have to get students graduated, give them time to get placed, etc.) Some of it I'm thrilled about, some of it shows us where we have more work to do (or need to do better in admissions - candidly it's always a difficult balance between giving folks chance and certainty of those folks' outcomes.) High level: 90% of those who are job seeking got hired. Our median hired grad increased their income by $27,500 (and that's just their first job - obviously software/data science salaries shoot up quickly after a first job). About half of our students have degrees, and half do not.
    - Dwolb 4y ago
      Hey so I’m not your marketer, but my 2 cents is to revamp that page to read more like a “proof of performance report” i.e. remove the fluff. The selling on the entire page makes it feel untrustworthy, which is the exact opposite of the intent.
    - laserlight 4y ago
      This comment got me interested, so I dived deeper into the report [0]. Learners are divided into three groups: graduated (59%), still enrolled (5%), and withdrawn (36%). Graduated learners are further divided into two groups: job seeking (63%: ~37% of all learners) and non-job seeking (37%: ~22% of all learners). Here's the definition of “non-job seeking”: “A BloomTech graduate who has been unresponsive to outreach, has explicitly indicated they are not pursuing a technical role, or has explicitly indicated they have paused their job search.” When we apply the base rate to the 90% rate, we conclude that 33% of those who attend the program (learners) got hired. [0] https://www.bloomtech.com/reports/outcomes-report https://www.bloomtech.com/reports/outcomes-report
      - fakedang 4y ago
        The gold is always under the shit.
      - ibarearer 4y ago
        I see, that’s … extremely unimpressive especially if you take the median salary increase from above. And I think maybe we should take everything else this guy is saying as potentially dishonest. Not including people who stopped trying to get a job is just an absurd way to do this calculation. Imagine a clinical trial that just ignores everyone who disconues due to adverse events. These stats seem borderline predatory
        achileas 4y ago
        That controversy has been rightly following Lambda around for a few years now.
        4y ago
snowypine 4y ago
I know someone who went through the Lambda/BloomTech bootcamp. Although they weren't able to transition to a new role, the experience helped them start to code in their job at the time. And iirc, because he didn't land a swe role, he didn't have to pay Lambda based on the ISA.
MivLives 4y ago
Most of the people I saw get successful were people were people doing like... extra stuff outside of the classes. They were taking what they learned and applying it. Others organized groups of people, and essentially formed a small support network of people in a similar position. I completely understand that not everyone has the time for that. I think two things happened over Lambda's life span that effected the quality of the teaching. The first was the initial pool they advertised too. I think I saw the post on Hacker News before everywhere else. I'd wonder if you're more selective from already technical people at the beginning and then sorta widening the net as time goes on to include more people if you could get initial big numbers push followed by more ok numbers. The instructors I met were all great. I think a lot of that flack went more towards later cohorts or alternative program from the main full webstack track.
- chrisfosterelli 4y ago
  > Most of the people I saw get successful were people were people doing like... extra stuff outside of the classes. Ironically this is not that different from my university experience.
  - MivLives 4y ago
    Mine too actually.
  - ivanche 4y ago
    Not ironically at all! If someone expects to attend programming classes (or any classes for that matter), not do any extra work and as a result to become a programmer, that someone will have a rude awakening. Or as one of my university professors said "Attempt to learn this subject by just listening these classes is equivalent to attemting to become a gymnast by watching Olympics on TV".
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
jstummbillig 4y ago
Or why were they? What percentage number is to be considered a success here? I don't have the faintest idea.

heavyset_go 4y ago

If you go on the HN Algolia, there are a lot of posts from students and people involved with Lambda over the years that might paint a clearer picture of what kind of dysfunction was taking place at the company.

austenallred 4y ago

I don't think the assertion that "lambda grads weren't able to get good jobs" is true. Obviously not every single student has been hired, but our hiring rates have always been pretty good (they're better now than they were in the past), and thousands of BloomTech (we had to change our name because of a trademark lawsuit) grads have increased their lifetime earnings by billions of dollars, and work at nearly every major company you can think of.

MivLives 4y ago
There were for sure people I knew who got good positions in companies. I don't mean to imply otherwise.
Dwolb 4y ago
What are the hiring rates and the average and median improvements in salary?
- austenallred 4y ago
  You can see our 2021 audited outcomes report here with all of the data https://www.bloomtech.com/reports/outcomes-report https://www.bloomtech.com/reports/outcomes-report. (Note: 2021 outcomes report is very recent as you have to get students graduated, give them time to get placed, etc.) Some of it I'm thrilled about, some of it shows us where we have more work to do (or need to do better in admissions - candidly it's always a difficult balance between giving folks chance and certainty of those folks' outcomes.) High level: 90% of those who are job seeking got hired. Our median hired grad increased their income by $27,500 (and that's just their first job - obviously software/data science salaries shoot up quickly after a first job). About half of our students have degrees, and half do not.
  - Dwolb 4y ago
    Hey so I’m not your marketer, but my 2 cents is to revamp that page to read more like a “proof of performance report” i.e. remove the fluff. The selling on the entire page makes it feel untrustworthy, which is the exact opposite of the intent.
  - laserlight 4y ago
    This comment got me interested, so I dived deeper into the report [0]. Learners are divided into three groups: graduated (59%), still enrolled (5%), and withdrawn (36%). Graduated learners are further divided into two groups: job seeking (63%: ~37% of all learners) and non-job seeking (37%: ~22% of all learners). Here's the definition of “non-job seeking”: “A BloomTech graduate who has been unresponsive to outreach, has explicitly indicated they are not pursuing a technical role, or has explicitly indicated they have paused their job search.” When we apply the base rate to the 90% rate, we conclude that 33% of those who attend the program (learners) got hired. [0] https://www.bloomtech.com/reports/outcomes-report https://www.bloomtech.com/reports/outcomes-report
    - fakedang 4y ago
      The gold is always under the shit.
    - ibarearer 4y ago
      I see, that’s … extremely unimpressive especially if you take the median salary increase from above. And I think maybe we should take everything else this guy is saying as potentially dishonest. Not including people who stopped trying to get a job is just an absurd way to do this calculation. Imagine a clinical trial that just ignores everyone who disconues due to adverse events. These stats seem borderline predatory
      - achileas 4y ago
        That controversy has been rightly following Lambda around for a few years now.
      - 4y ago

snowypine 4y ago

I know someone who went through the Lambda/BloomTech bootcamp. Although they weren't able to transition to a new role, the experience helped them start to code in their job at the time. And iirc, because he didn't land a swe role, he didn't have to pay Lambda based on the ISA.

MivLives 4y ago

Most of the people I saw get successful were people were people doing like... extra stuff outside of the classes. They were taking what they learned and applying it. Others organized groups of people, and essentially formed a small support network of people in a similar position. I completely understand that not everyone has the time for that. I think two things happened over Lambda's life span that effected the quality of the teaching. The first was the initial pool they advertised too. I think I saw the post on Hacker News before everywhere else. I'd wonder if you're more selective from already technical people at the beginning and then sorta widening the net as time goes on to include more people if you could get initial big numbers push followed by more ok numbers. The instructors I met were all great. I think a lot of that flack went more towards later cohorts or alternative program from the main full webstack track.

chrisfosterelli 4y ago
> Most of the people I saw get successful were people were people doing like... extra stuff outside of the classes. Ironically this is not that different from my university experience.
- MivLives 4y ago
  Mine too actually.
- ivanche 4y ago
  Not ironically at all! If someone expects to attend programming classes (or any classes for that matter), not do any extra work and as a result to become a programmer, that someone will have a rude awakening. Or as one of my university professors said "Attempt to learn this subject by just listening these classes is equivalent to attemting to become a gymnast by watching Olympics on TV".
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

jstummbillig 4y ago

Or why were they? What percentage number is to be considered a success here? I don't have the faintest idea.