5 ms·

On one hand, SF is probably 1/4 as dense as Manhattan. On the other hand, plenty of international cities have solved this problem. NYC just refuses to address i

by scld 4y ago

On one hand, SF is probably 1/4 as dense as Manhattan. On the other hand, plenty of international cities have solved this problem. NYC just refuses to address it because they're NYC and nobody tells them what to do, politically.

midoridensha 4y ago
majormajor 4y ago
From some quick googling Manhattan itself is also considerably denser than Tokyo or Hong Kong or London or Singapore. There are probably other international ones denser (21,646 people per mi2 for Singapore is the closest I found, but 72K for Manhattan), but a quick search suggests it's not necessarily that commonly easily solved. There are probably some sizeable specifically dense areas in those places, at least in the Asian cities (especially Hong Kong just from "feel"), but I don't have that sort of granular knowledge. Seems unlikely that trash is the only source of food for the rat population, too. Or that dumpsters or bins magically keep out the rats from the trash. Rats can be crafty!
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  In New York you can literally watch the rats eating the garbage through the bags. Bins and dumpsters are indeed not perfect but anecdotally after living in both NYC and SF I can say the issue is far worse in NYC and I've seen lots of rats eating garbage in NYC because the garbage is literally piled up on the sidewalk for half a day or more, 3 times a week. In SF I see plenty of rats, but there aren't piles of garbage sitting out, so it's just far less of an issue. This is admittedly my own experience amd observation, I'm no rat expert.
- verall 4y ago
  If you're going to carve out Manhattan, for apples to apples comparison: Shinjuku: 50000/mi2 Hong Kong island: 91500/mi2 kowloon: 111450/mi2
- scld 4y ago
  Yeah, honestly the density numbers are tough to find because "NYC" always includes Queens,etc....so you kinda have to go look at subsections of major cities. The point is that Manhattan isn't particularly dense when compared to other world-class cities major population centers, and these other places have solved the problem of trash collection. NYC exceptionalism seems to be the fall-back explanation for why it "can't be done"....but to me it fails under further inspection....literally fails the smell test :) Finally, you're correct that the trash bins aren't a panacea, but not allowing a literal rat buffet to fester on the sidewalks 3 nights a week is a good first step.

by scld 4y ago

midoridensha 4y ago

majormajor 4y ago

From some quick googling Manhattan itself is also considerably denser than Tokyo or Hong Kong or London or Singapore. There are probably other international ones denser (21,646 people per mi2 for Singapore is the closest I found, but 72K for Manhattan), but a quick search suggests it's not necessarily that commonly easily solved. There are probably some sizeable specifically dense areas in those places, at least in the Asian cities (especially Hong Kong just from "feel"), but I don't have that sort of granular knowledge. Seems unlikely that trash is the only source of food for the rat population, too. Or that dumpsters or bins magically keep out the rats from the trash. Rats can be crafty!

iancmceachern 4y ago
In New York you can literally watch the rats eating the garbage through the bags. Bins and dumpsters are indeed not perfect but anecdotally after living in both NYC and SF I can say the issue is far worse in NYC and I've seen lots of rats eating garbage in NYC because the garbage is literally piled up on the sidewalk for half a day or more, 3 times a week. In SF I see plenty of rats, but there aren't piles of garbage sitting out, so it's just far less of an issue. This is admittedly my own experience amd observation, I'm no rat expert.
verall 4y ago
If you're going to carve out Manhattan, for apples to apples comparison: Shinjuku: 50000/mi2 Hong Kong island: 91500/mi2 kowloon: 111450/mi2
scld 4y ago
Yeah, honestly the density numbers are tough to find because "NYC" always includes Queens,etc....so you kinda have to go look at subsections of major cities. The point is that Manhattan isn't particularly dense when compared to other world-class cities major population centers, and these other places have solved the problem of trash collection. NYC exceptionalism seems to be the fall-back explanation for why it "can't be done"....but to me it fails under further inspection....literally fails the smell test :) Finally, you're correct that the trash bins aren't a panacea, but not allowing a literal rat buffet to fester on the sidewalks 3 nights a week is a good first step.