4 ms·

I've worked both in industry and academia (non-tenured). Reading your post gives me the impression that you haven't worked in industry and thus are afflicted wi

I've worked both in industry and academia (non-tenured). Reading your post gives me the impression that you haven't worked in industry and thus are afflicted with the grass is greener syndrome. Totally agree with @oumua_don17, most large companies are very much woke so they have similar peer-to-peer, be consensual and nice to one another ethos ... and nothing really gets done. Since you are tenured and "have no boss", why don't you try being more assertive. Stake out your territory and growl at all intruders. Adopt a persona with more ego. Make wilder claims and deliver those papers, etc. From what I have seen of European industry, there are many favorable situations for industry - academia collaborations. You could identify areas where your specialization can deliver desired results and contact companies in your area in relation to establishing R&D collaborations. In many cases, there are government subsidies and grants which make it even more enticing for industry partners.

nextos 4y ago
I am currently in academia, I have tenured offers and I am thinking about industry for the same reasons as the OP. I actually found his description to be a really accurate diagnosis of the issues that plague large organizations. Big corporations will be the same, but small startups won't because due to their size and age entropy is low. Chains of command are short. There is little room for politics. Of course, startups have lots of other issues. Long working hours and job insecurity. There is no free lunch. Management is hard.
mattpallissard 4y ago
> there are many favorable situations for industry - academia collaborations. In the same vein there are research institutes as well. One of the best jobs I ever had was in HPC at an institute that was technically under the umbrella of a university.
comte7092 4y ago
I have to agree. OP gives off a sense that they don’t know how to draw boundaries well, this can end up with them stuck in a situation that is far far worse: having to be accountable to someone who doesn’t actively create the environment they are seeking. You know what’s worse that being a tenured prof stuck going to endless pointless meetings? Having a boss who tells you that you have to. Being assertive in their current role is really the solution. They likely do not have to go to all of these meetings nor allow people to interrupt them all the time, they just can’t bear the cost of people finding those boundaries to be off putting.
- low_tech_love 4y ago
  Yes, of course being assertive is the solution, and that’s what I try to do every day, but it’s exhausting. I understand having to deal with people in every job, but the problem with academia is that you’re expected to do this all time. Today, the image of a successful professor is one that has influence over the largest amount of people and can get them to do his job and put his name on it. In case you isolate and/or push people off too much, invariably they’ll start looking at you funny and asking questions such as “what are you doing with your time?” (which I got asked recently, even though I’m teaching 8 PhD level courses a year, I’m one of the most productive staff of the dept in terms of publications, and I supervise 4 PhD students). The point is not that I can solve it, the point is that, according to the system which pays me, I shouldn’t. I’ve given up on climbing any career ladder whatsoever. I know what’s up there. All of this is caused by the fact that people in academia have no real goal that’s connected to the real world. Even if they are super successful, they can’t really get rich or make a lot more money. Here, if you get external funding, you don’t get a salary increase; the only thing you can do is pay other people to do your job. As such, “power” in academia equals “how many people you can influence”. This creates all kinds of bizarre, unhinged egotistical behavior.
  - impendia 4y ago
    I'm in academia -- a tenured professor in math, and in the United States. My situation is different, but here are my thoughts: "You're expected to..." "the image of a successful professor..." "they'll start looking at you funny..." "climbing any career ladder" "power in academia" If you have tenure, you have an incredible career luxury, namely that you can ignore all of the above. Personally, I have made the decision that I care about my reputation among (1) my collaborators and people in my research field, (2) several close colleagues whom I enormously respect, and (3) my students. My colleagues at large? I get along with them fine, I am polite and friendly and so are they, but I don't care much what they think, and I certainly would not adapt my work to their vision of success. Nor would they, to mine. This rat race of trying to gain influence over people... some people enjoy it. In my department one such person might become department chair next year. If he tries to get me to go along with his bullshit games, then I will smile, thank him for his advice, and ignore everything he said. I don't know your situation exactly, but you might try simply tuning out the bullshit before jumping ship, and seeing what happens.

nextos 4y ago

I am currently in academia, I have tenured offers and I am thinking about industry for the same reasons as the OP. I actually found his description to be a really accurate diagnosis of the issues that plague large organizations. Big corporations will be the same, but small startups won't because due to their size and age entropy is low. Chains of command are short. There is little room for politics. Of course, startups have lots of other issues. Long working hours and job insecurity. There is no free lunch. Management is hard.

mattpallissard 4y ago

> there are many favorable situations for industry - academia collaborations. In the same vein there are research institutes as well. One of the best jobs I ever had was in HPC at an institute that was technically under the umbrella of a university.

comte7092 4y ago

I have to agree. OP gives off a sense that they don’t know how to draw boundaries well, this can end up with them stuck in a situation that is far far worse: having to be accountable to someone who doesn’t actively create the environment they are seeking. You know what’s worse that being a tenured prof stuck going to endless pointless meetings? Having a boss who tells you that you have to. Being assertive in their current role is really the solution. They likely do not have to go to all of these meetings nor allow people to interrupt them all the time, they just can’t bear the cost of people finding those boundaries to be off putting.

low_tech_love 4y ago
Yes, of course being assertive is the solution, and that’s what I try to do every day, but it’s exhausting. I understand having to deal with people in every job, but the problem with academia is that you’re expected to do this all time. Today, the image of a successful professor is one that has influence over the largest amount of people and can get them to do his job and put his name on it. In case you isolate and/or push people off too much, invariably they’ll start looking at you funny and asking questions such as “what are you doing with your time?” (which I got asked recently, even though I’m teaching 8 PhD level courses a year, I’m one of the most productive staff of the dept in terms of publications, and I supervise 4 PhD students). The point is not that I can solve it, the point is that, according to the system which pays me, I shouldn’t. I’ve given up on climbing any career ladder whatsoever. I know what’s up there. All of this is caused by the fact that people in academia have no real goal that’s connected to the real world. Even if they are super successful, they can’t really get rich or make a lot more money. Here, if you get external funding, you don’t get a salary increase; the only thing you can do is pay other people to do your job. As such, “power” in academia equals “how many people you can influence”. This creates all kinds of bizarre, unhinged egotistical behavior.
- impendia 4y ago
  I'm in academia -- a tenured professor in math, and in the United States. My situation is different, but here are my thoughts: "You're expected to..." "the image of a successful professor..." "they'll start looking at you funny..." "climbing any career ladder" "power in academia" If you have tenure, you have an incredible career luxury, namely that you can ignore all of the above. Personally, I have made the decision that I care about my reputation among (1) my collaborators and people in my research field, (2) several close colleagues whom I enormously respect, and (3) my students. My colleagues at large? I get along with them fine, I am polite and friendly and so are they, but I don't care much what they think, and I certainly would not adapt my work to their vision of success. Nor would they, to mine. This rat race of trying to gain influence over people... some people enjoy it. In my department one such person might become department chair next year. If he tries to get me to go along with his bullshit games, then I will smile, thank him for his advice, and ignore everything he said. I don't know your situation exactly, but you might try simply tuning out the bullshit before jumping ship, and seeing what happens.