5 ms·

Yeah but some things would never have seen the light of day. The M1 chips for example were a huge investment that wouldn’t have been made without the behemoth t

Yeah but some things would never have seen the light of day. The M1 chips for example were a huge investment that wouldn’t have been made without the behemoth that is Apple behind it.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
There comes a point though when you have to break monopoly's for the market's sake. For example, remember Standard Oil? They made oil super cheap, researched new oils, basically were great for customers almost like Amazon - but they were monopolistic and were shattered for being so. Similar monopolies in the past like Bell Telephone or, arguably, Amazon now are great from the consumer's perspective but terrible for businesses. In the past, we were less afraid to say, "you're doing great, but you're still too powerful."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- simonh 4y ago
  I just don’t see a monopoly though. Apple has simply been successful, and there’s no anti-consumer angle to just making incredibly popular products. A big part of that popularity comes from the tight vertical integration. That’s why so many Apple users see this kind of talk as an attack on us, you want to make the things we like about these products illegal or commercially infeasible. I just don’t see how that is in our interests as consumers. If you want to use products that work a different way, fine, but I don’t see how that’s our problem.
  - jacobr1 4y ago
    And it isn't like quality Android phones are somehow niche, hard to find, or cost more. The competitions is strong and Apple only maintains its lead (in fairly short 1-2 year product cycles) with innovation. If it stopped innovating or charging excessive amounts, they would lose their market share very quickly.
- jacobr1 4y ago
  With the benefit of hindsight was breaking up Standard Oil worth it?
- threeseed 4y ago
  It's this ridiculous "everything should be a market" concept. Would you expect a LG microwave to be forced to support other operating systems ? And how do warranties and support work for this.
exabrial 4y ago
I don't really understand how the M1 chip is any different than other speciality SOC offerings though.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  Apple has had over a decade designing and testing these chips to exact specifications and use cases. Without this you have... well, literally everyone else who haven't done this (because they couldn't or wouldn't). This is what makes it different from "specialty SOC offerings".
  - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
    Apple is more than willing to milk cash cows with little to no innovation - See iphone/ipad/macos/ios, etc. Its the same with chip foundaries/companies - Intel et al. will just milk their own cash cow with mild incremental releases. Companies with nothing to loose often innovate. (e.g. Apple with M1). Keeping companies "stay hungry, stay foolish" is probably in our best interest ! :)
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      Apple could've also milked their cash cow. And yet they implemented and executed a multilayered intertwined decade-long (or actually longer) plan. Their first custom chip was launched in 2010. It means they were designing it since at least 2008, but definitely since before then. The original iPhone was launched in 2007. So, they were designing and releasing a new product category, and already designing custom chips for it. Even fat lazy companies can stay hungry and foolish. There are not that many of them, though.
      - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
        Nobody spends billions in R&D when there is no threat and they can just earn the same money doing nothing, or very little. Sorry, I don't agree.
macintux 4y ago
And as importantly, if the company making iPhones and the company making Macs were forced to be different entities, how would the A-series chips have evolved into the M-series? Apple took a decade of hard-earned architectural knowledge and evolution to create the M1.

Yeah but some things would never have seen the light of day. The M1 chips for example were a huge investment that wouldn’t have been made without the behemoth that is Apple behind it.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

There comes a point though when you have to break monopoly's for the market's sake. For example, remember Standard Oil? They made oil super cheap, researched new oils, basically were great for customers almost like Amazon - but they were monopolistic and were shattered for being so. Similar monopolies in the past like Bell Telephone or, arguably, Amazon now are great from the consumer's perspective but terrible for businesses. In the past, we were less afraid to say, "you're doing great, but you're still too powerful."

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
simonh 4y ago
I just don’t see a monopoly though. Apple has simply been successful, and there’s no anti-consumer angle to just making incredibly popular products. A big part of that popularity comes from the tight vertical integration. That’s why so many Apple users see this kind of talk as an attack on us, you want to make the things we like about these products illegal or commercially infeasible. I just don’t see how that is in our interests as consumers. If you want to use products that work a different way, fine, but I don’t see how that’s our problem.
- jacobr1 4y ago
  And it isn't like quality Android phones are somehow niche, hard to find, or cost more. The competitions is strong and Apple only maintains its lead (in fairly short 1-2 year product cycles) with innovation. If it stopped innovating or charging excessive amounts, they would lose their market share very quickly.
jacobr1 4y ago
With the benefit of hindsight was breaking up Standard Oil worth it?
threeseed 4y ago
It's this ridiculous "everything should be a market" concept. Would you expect a LG microwave to be forced to support other operating systems ? And how do warranties and support work for this.

exabrial 4y ago

I don't really understand how the M1 chip is any different than other speciality SOC offerings though.

dmitriid 4y ago
Apple has had over a decade designing and testing these chips to exact specifications and use cases. Without this you have... well, literally everyone else who haven't done this (because they couldn't or wouldn't). This is what makes it different from "specialty SOC offerings".
- trap_goes_hot 4y ago
  Apple is more than willing to milk cash cows with little to no innovation - See iphone/ipad/macos/ios, etc. Its the same with chip foundaries/companies - Intel et al. will just milk their own cash cow with mild incremental releases. Companies with nothing to loose often innovate. (e.g. Apple with M1). Keeping companies "stay hungry, stay foolish" is probably in our best interest ! :)
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    Apple could've also milked their cash cow. And yet they implemented and executed a multilayered intertwined decade-long (or actually longer) plan. Their first custom chip was launched in 2010. It means they were designing it since at least 2008, but definitely since before then. The original iPhone was launched in 2007. So, they were designing and releasing a new product category, and already designing custom chips for it. Even fat lazy companies can stay hungry and foolish. There are not that many of them, though.
    - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
      Nobody spends billions in R&D when there is no threat and they can just earn the same money doing nothing, or very little. Sorry, I don't agree.

macintux 4y ago

And as importantly, if the company making iPhones and the company making Macs were forced to be different entities, how would the A-series chips have evolved into the M-series? Apple took a decade of hard-earned architectural knowledge and evolution to create the M1.