5 ms·

It's KYC. Thanks but no thanks, I'll keep using DEXes...

by rahen 4y ago

acdha 4y ago
KYC is a legal requirement. If you want cryptocurrency to be adopted, it needs to be legal to use. Even if it becomes cost competitive, most businesses aren't going to touch something which exposes them to risk of getting involved in a money laundering case.
- ajconway 4y ago
  What about ZCash-like networks with anonymous transactions?
  - rahen 4y ago
    That's a privacy coin. It mostly attracts agorists, not businesses.
    - ajconway 4y ago
      But, given a choice, wouldn't you choose your own transactions to be untraceable?
      - rahen 4y ago
        Of course. I used to like Monero (XMR) despite its shortcomings, but Lightning is now more promising. It essentially solves all the flows in Bitcoin: scalability, fungability and privacy.
- rahen 4y ago
  With fiat money, you can legally retrieve anonymous cash from an ATM if you choose so, without suspicion. Or likewise, you can reveal your identity for a transaction when appropriate. This should be the same with crypto. Let's see it this way: surveillance is needed and those who seek privacy may indeed conceal illegal activities. But I think we can agree not everyone is a criminal and if I have a right to privacy with cash, I should have the same right with cryptocurrencies.
  - phatfish 4y ago
    Paper cash is "analog" and local, crypto is digital and global. It's the equivalent of buying DVD copies off someone at a market stall vs a torrent site. Except with crypto you have the government after you directly for tax avoidance, money laundering and the prospect of $GovIssuedCurrency being sidelined. With torrents it's the MPAA sending lawyers after you. My feeling is if you can't do it anonymously with cash the government probably has a reason to be interested. What should happen is all businesses must be forced to accept cash transactions, I don't like then trend towards cash-free shops.
p0pcult 4y ago
The KYC stuff goes hand in hand with regulation, which is important if you don't want all of crypto to be eaten alive by future FTXes and SBFs
- pjkundert 4y ago
  Nope: no amount of regulation fixes stupid. Personal responsibility to understand how things work? Unwelcome to most folks, but the only thing that works. If your institution is keeping their internal operations hidden (no provable compliance), then “regulation” is at best a delay of the inevitable corruption.
  - p0pcult 4y ago
    Vast majority of the complaints about crypto fall into two categories: -lawless: e.g., ponzi scheme, rug pulls, etc. -useless: "this is just a database" For crypto to be useful, both of these challenges need to be addressed; well-designed regulation certainly will help the former, and also its perception.
    - rglover 4y ago
      They're already addressed by Bitcoin (which has zero centralized team, marketing, or promotion of future "gains"). "Crypto" (anything that isn't Bitcoin) is by design a way to run a legitimate ponzi scheme, primarily for VCs who realized it was easy money [1]. [1] https://twitter.com/SilvermanJacob/status/1595059806200643589 https://twitter.com/SilvermanJacob/status/159505980620064358...
- throwaway87274 4y ago
  KYC and "regulations" didn't do shit to prevent a fraud from laundering customer funds between business entities to gamble and try to save his failed hedge fund. That crime was pretty much crypto only in the sense it involved an exchange and they overleveraged themselves, but the actual crime was just straight fraud.
  - 4y ago

It's KYC. Thanks but no thanks, I'll keep using DEXes...

by rahen 4y ago

It's KYC. Thanks but no thanks, I'll keep using DEXes...

KYC is a legal requirement. If you want cryptocurrency to be adopted, it needs to be legal to use. Even if it becomes cost competitive, most businesses aren't going to touch something which exposes them to risk of getting involved in a money laundering case.

ajconway 4y ago
What about ZCash-like networks with anonymous transactions?
- rahen 4y ago
  That's a privacy coin. It mostly attracts agorists, not businesses.
  - ajconway 4y ago
    But, given a choice, wouldn't you choose your own transactions to be untraceable?
    - rahen 4y ago
      Of course. I used to like Monero (XMR) despite its shortcomings, but Lightning is now more promising. It essentially solves all the flows in Bitcoin: scalability, fungability and privacy.
rahen 4y ago
With fiat money, you can legally retrieve anonymous cash from an ATM if you choose so, without suspicion. Or likewise, you can reveal your identity for a transaction when appropriate. This should be the same with crypto. Let's see it this way: surveillance is needed and those who seek privacy may indeed conceal illegal activities. But I think we can agree not everyone is a criminal and if I have a right to privacy with cash, I should have the same right with cryptocurrencies.
- phatfish 4y ago
  Paper cash is "analog" and local, crypto is digital and global. It's the equivalent of buying DVD copies off someone at a market stall vs a torrent site. Except with crypto you have the government after you directly for tax avoidance, money laundering and the prospect of $GovIssuedCurrency being sidelined. With torrents it's the MPAA sending lawyers after you. My feeling is if you can't do it anonymously with cash the government probably has a reason to be interested. What should happen is all businesses must be forced to accept cash transactions, I don't like then trend towards cash-free shops.

p0pcult 4y ago

The KYC stuff goes hand in hand with regulation, which is important if you don't want all of crypto to be eaten alive by future FTXes and SBFs

pjkundert 4y ago
Nope: no amount of regulation fixes stupid. Personal responsibility to understand how things work? Unwelcome to most folks, but the only thing that works. If your institution is keeping their internal operations hidden (no provable compliance), then “regulation” is at best a delay of the inevitable corruption.
- p0pcult 4y ago
  Vast majority of the complaints about crypto fall into two categories: -lawless: e.g., ponzi scheme, rug pulls, etc. -useless: "this is just a database" For crypto to be useful, both of these challenges need to be addressed; well-designed regulation certainly will help the former, and also its perception.
  - rglover 4y ago
    They're already addressed by Bitcoin (which has zero centralized team, marketing, or promotion of future "gains"). "Crypto" (anything that isn't Bitcoin) is by design a way to run a legitimate ponzi scheme, primarily for VCs who realized it was easy money [1]. [1] https://twitter.com/SilvermanJacob/status/1595059806200643589 https://twitter.com/SilvermanJacob/status/159505980620064358...
throwaway87274 4y ago
KYC and "regulations" didn't do shit to prevent a fraud from laundering customer funds between business entities to gamble and try to save his failed hedge fund. That crime was pretty much crypto only in the sense it involved an exchange and they overleveraged themselves, but the actual crime was just straight fraud.
- 4y ago