4 ms·

You do know this is socialism, and you've not addressed any of the key issues that occur in socialist systems. Why would you think this would ever work? If yo

by _siis 4y ago

You do know this is socialism, and you've not addressed any of the key issues that occur in socialist systems. Why would you think this would ever work? If you tried to go out and build a skyscraper with no engineering knowledge, how well do you think that would go?

sschueller 4y ago
It works in Switzerland, call it what you want. - The most dense train network in the world (5,323 km) - 100% electrified, which was decided in 1913 - The longest train tunnel in the world (57,1 km), completed in 2016 [1]. To ensure the safety of passengers it required a lot of engineering including a system that scans every train[3] at speed to make sure things are in order before going into the tunnel. - Trains in 2021 where 91.9% on time and 98.9% of connection where made [2] My fiber internet infrastructure is also owned by the city/state and I can pick between 20+ private providers one of which offers 25gbit synchronous for ~$70 per month. Some things work much better when they are state owned. Specifically infrastructure such as roads, trains, telecommunication, water, electricity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel [2] https://reporting.sbb.ch/punctuality?sv_lang=3&sv_lang_change=true https://reporting.sbb.ch/punctuality?sv_lang=3&sv_lang_chang... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwx_rumXUAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwx_rumXUAw
comte7092 4y ago
Under your definition, the government engaging in any economic activity is socialism, and therefore all governments are socialist. Such a definition is so expansive that it essentially meaningless analytically, making statements such as: >you've not addressed any of the key issues that occur in socialist systems. Disingenuous and nonsensical.
- _siis 4y ago
  Sounds to me like you just don't want to take a stab at any of the problems that actually occur in centralized power structures, and you'd likely say the same thing to anything in any subject via armchair. Why should anyone assign any credibility to what you say when you've been disingenous yourself upfront and put your own words in other people's mouths. Key elements of socialism are centralized power structure, lack or eroding of property rights, and issues often revolve around corruption, monopoly (which is often called capitalism, though its not), seizures, lack of accountability, and the limited production receives little benefit from divisions of labor tending towards the lowest common denominator. Why should anyone listen to you if you can't even add anything to the conversation (likely because you don't know)?
  - comte7092 4y ago
    How is your position different than “if the government does it, it is socialism”. The subject at hand is, whether or not it is a good idea for the government to operate the rail system, to which you flatly cried was socialism. Is the US postal service socialism? Is the fire department socialism? Is it really your position that these institutions are inherently corrupt? Very few people would seriously defend that position who aren’t ardent ideologues.
    - than3 4y ago

by _siis 4y ago

sschueller 4y ago

It works in Switzerland, call it what you want. - The most dense train network in the world (5,323 km) - 100% electrified, which was decided in 1913 - The longest train tunnel in the world (57,1 km), completed in 2016 [1]. To ensure the safety of passengers it required a lot of engineering including a system that scans every train[3] at speed to make sure things are in order before going into the tunnel. - Trains in 2021 where 91.9% on time and 98.9% of connection where made [2] My fiber internet infrastructure is also owned by the city/state and I can pick between 20+ private providers one of which offers 25gbit synchronous for ~$70 per month. Some things work much better when they are state owned. Specifically infrastructure such as roads, trains, telecommunication, water, electricity. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotthard_Base_Tunnel [2] https://reporting.sbb.ch/punctuality?sv_lang=3&sv_lang_change=true https://reporting.sbb.ch/punctuality?sv_lang=3&sv_lang_chang... [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwx_rumXUAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwx_rumXUAw

comte7092 4y ago

Under your definition, the government engaging in any economic activity is socialism, and therefore all governments are socialist. Such a definition is so expansive that it essentially meaningless analytically, making statements such as: >you've not addressed any of the key issues that occur in socialist systems. Disingenuous and nonsensical.

_siis 4y ago
Sounds to me like you just don't want to take a stab at any of the problems that actually occur in centralized power structures, and you'd likely say the same thing to anything in any subject via armchair. Why should anyone assign any credibility to what you say when you've been disingenous yourself upfront and put your own words in other people's mouths. Key elements of socialism are centralized power structure, lack or eroding of property rights, and issues often revolve around corruption, monopoly (which is often called capitalism, though its not), seizures, lack of accountability, and the limited production receives little benefit from divisions of labor tending towards the lowest common denominator. Why should anyone listen to you if you can't even add anything to the conversation (likely because you don't know)?
- comte7092 4y ago
  How is your position different than “if the government does it, it is socialism”. The subject at hand is, whether or not it is a good idea for the government to operate the rail system, to which you flatly cried was socialism. Is the US postal service socialism? Is the fire department socialism? Is it really your position that these institutions are inherently corrupt? Very few people would seriously defend that position who aren’t ardent ideologues.
  - than3 4y ago