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I did, but like I said I "was politely told to shut up" and "my job was to "deliver" not to ask questions. This was raised in one on ones with the Head of Engi

I did, but like I said I "was politely told to shut up" and "my job was to "deliver" not to ask questions. This was raised in one on ones with the Head of Engineering, a weekly group planning with Head and CTO where it wasn't me but the Scrum master putting forward the question, then again as asides with the sales guys. This was a systemic issue with how the company was run and who was selected for leadership

mixmastamyk 4y ago
And when you brought this up what did they say?
- passwordoops 4y ago
  Variations of "stick with the plan" and "we have visibility you don't". Keep in mind I'm an already experienced Product Manager at this point brought on specifically because I had a proven background in full product lifecycle, revenue growth and communication to higher ups at companies running on the 10-100MM revenue and profits in the 10% range. I got there because I know how to schmooze the C-suite. I appreciate you're trying to turn this into a "work on your communications skills to get ahead" coaching opportunity but this was not the case. It was my first, and I hope only, experience with yes men being thoughtless yes men.
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    I asked because you ended the story somewhat early, which was a bit unsatisfying. Now I suppose you could humor these folks and look a bit foolish all the while collecting big paychecks. Or you could nip it in the bud at risk of souring the relationship. Believe I’d choose differently depending on how old I was at the time. It’s on my mind because last night I watched “the bodyguard” (final night on Netflix). Main character nips all bullishit in the bud immediately, increases his rate by 1/3 and gains respect at the same time. Have to deliver however.
    - passwordoops 4y ago
      Yeah, it was tough because the CTO was either a flake or already checked out and the Head of Engineering was a brown nose who would do whatever the last executive told him to do. Totally different reality from the answers I got at the interview. In this situation, unless you have a spot in the C suite, or a defender, you have to play ball because the decisions happen behind your back. It was very disheartening because it was clear being a yes man who steals the credit and finding fall guys got you ahead. If that's the culture, there's really not much you can do but play ball or leave. And if you're not "in", playing ball means getting all the blame. I wasn't "in", but luckily since most conversations were over slack or email I always had documented evidence that they couldn't deny. But the people responsible wouldn't be held responsible. Again I've been at a few places, and I've never experienced anything similar, and I hope I never do.
- passwordoops 4y ago
  Another example. Supposedly the CFOs office was providing usage stats in presentations to clients, which I found odd because we only starting collecting this data shortly after I started. One day an underling from the finance department sends me a message saying they need the data for the next presentation happening in a few days... I ask what's needed since no one showed me one of these decks. We don't actually collect a good chunk of the data that are in that deck, and of the ones we do, the data from my pipeline doesn't match at all. Underling freaks out and says we can't present this, it will raise too many questions! (That's literally what she said) As usual, I get called into a rush meeting where CFO reams me and Ops for having changed how we collect data, and this is squarely on our feet. We're remote at this point so me and Ops person start digging, and it turns out the data they present are effectively numbers the VP Sales pulled out of the air in the early sales days. Based literally on nothing. At this point ops and I were able to provide enough documentary evidence on the topic that is clear the people responsible for these decks were making it up. Because it's the CFO and VP Sales, nothing happens it's all swept under the rug. They gave two more presentations to other clients with the fake data by the time I left. Apparently the practice stopped after a bigger company bought them out and both were shown the door
  - nier 4y ago
    Experiences like this one affirm me to send brief emails for documentation. “Is it true that we are winning clients by presenting usage statistics? Did you know that we recently started collecting that data in an organized fashion? This might save you time when you’re looking for updated figures.” …or the original problem: “Thanks for the updated road map. Accordingly, I just made sure that all tickets related to big feature x are marked as obsolete.”

mixmastamyk 4y ago

And when you brought this up what did they say?

passwordoops 4y ago
Variations of "stick with the plan" and "we have visibility you don't". Keep in mind I'm an already experienced Product Manager at this point brought on specifically because I had a proven background in full product lifecycle, revenue growth and communication to higher ups at companies running on the 10-100MM revenue and profits in the 10% range. I got there because I know how to schmooze the C-suite. I appreciate you're trying to turn this into a "work on your communications skills to get ahead" coaching opportunity but this was not the case. It was my first, and I hope only, experience with yes men being thoughtless yes men.
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  I asked because you ended the story somewhat early, which was a bit unsatisfying. Now I suppose you could humor these folks and look a bit foolish all the while collecting big paychecks. Or you could nip it in the bud at risk of souring the relationship. Believe I’d choose differently depending on how old I was at the time. It’s on my mind because last night I watched “the bodyguard” (final night on Netflix). Main character nips all bullishit in the bud immediately, increases his rate by 1/3 and gains respect at the same time. Have to deliver however.
  - passwordoops 4y ago
    Yeah, it was tough because the CTO was either a flake or already checked out and the Head of Engineering was a brown nose who would do whatever the last executive told him to do. Totally different reality from the answers I got at the interview. In this situation, unless you have a spot in the C suite, or a defender, you have to play ball because the decisions happen behind your back. It was very disheartening because it was clear being a yes man who steals the credit and finding fall guys got you ahead. If that's the culture, there's really not much you can do but play ball or leave. And if you're not "in", playing ball means getting all the blame. I wasn't "in", but luckily since most conversations were over slack or email I always had documented evidence that they couldn't deny. But the people responsible wouldn't be held responsible. Again I've been at a few places, and I've never experienced anything similar, and I hope I never do.
passwordoops 4y ago
Another example. Supposedly the CFOs office was providing usage stats in presentations to clients, which I found odd because we only starting collecting this data shortly after I started. One day an underling from the finance department sends me a message saying they need the data for the next presentation happening in a few days... I ask what's needed since no one showed me one of these decks. We don't actually collect a good chunk of the data that are in that deck, and of the ones we do, the data from my pipeline doesn't match at all. Underling freaks out and says we can't present this, it will raise too many questions! (That's literally what she said) As usual, I get called into a rush meeting where CFO reams me and Ops for having changed how we collect data, and this is squarely on our feet. We're remote at this point so me and Ops person start digging, and it turns out the data they present are effectively numbers the VP Sales pulled out of the air in the early sales days. Based literally on nothing. At this point ops and I were able to provide enough documentary evidence on the topic that is clear the people responsible for these decks were making it up. Because it's the CFO and VP Sales, nothing happens it's all swept under the rug. They gave two more presentations to other clients with the fake data by the time I left. Apparently the practice stopped after a bigger company bought them out and both were shown the door
- nier 4y ago
  Experiences like this one affirm me to send brief emails for documentation. “Is it true that we are winning clients by presenting usage statistics? Did you know that we recently started collecting that data in an organized fashion? This might save you time when you’re looking for updated figures.” …or the original problem: “Thanks for the updated road map. Accordingly, I just made sure that all tickets related to big feature x are marked as obsolete.”