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"This man was armed but not immediately dangerous except to himself and to the police" Ok, so he was dangerous. Do police officers and neighbors not have famil

"This man was armed but not immediately dangerous except to himself and to the police" Ok, so he was dangerous. Do police officers and neighbors not have family who love them? You're either dangerous or you're not. It sounds like he was dangerous.

user3939382 4y ago
Maybe he was dangerous for rational reasons i.e. the fear he felt about the horrid inexcusable incarceration conditions that we in the US call "rehabilitation" with a straight face. Of course that's debatable, and there will regardless be people who are dangerous for reasons that are irrational. It also doesn't excuse his behavior, the world has all kinds of problems and we can't accept solving them by whipping out a gun. But the topic deserves contemporaneous consideration. One wonders how many law enforcement have been hurt, citizens hurt, or performing desperate crimes, to avoid incarceration which in the US is so horrible that many people prefer death.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  > horrid inexcusable incarceration conditions that we in the US call "rehabilitation" with a straight face. You show bias
  - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
    the truth is a well known biasing factor
  - ldh0011 4y ago
    Is it bias just to criticize calling it rehabilitation? The US has one of the highest recidivism rates in the world, let alone among developed countries. I think it is safe to say there isn't much rehabilitation going on.
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
    - PM_me_your_math 4y ago
      At what point does the crime you commit become everyone else's fault?
      - ldh0011 4y ago
        Did I say that? Reducing recidivism benefits everyone in society and helps both would-be victims AND the would-be perpetrators.
PaulHoule 4y ago
What I mean by that is this: if he were to come out shooting the police are well protected by the use of cover and body armor and would almost certainly be able to take him out before he caused them any harm. If the police tried to end the situation by going in they would be taking a risk which would be unacceptable. On the other hand, letting the situation drag on causes it's own problem, not only is it tying up the resources of the department and disrupting the lives of the neighbors, but it also creates a spectacle that makes the department look bad. Adding it all up it is a "no win" situation for the police. If they use too much force they will get blamed. If they let the situation linger on, they get blamed. As it was the man died by his own hand and people did blame the police for this. Sometimes barricade situations end up OK. One of my dad's coworkers freaked out in the 1980s over a situation with his ex-wife and was barricaded against the SWAT team, eventually he surrendered. It is sometimes possible to talk somebody like that into giving up their weapons and surrender, it probably happens most of the time. Sometimes it doesn't.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
Right. I keep seeing "they're only a danger to themselves" but you only really know that in retrospect.

user3939382 4y ago

Maybe he was dangerous for rational reasons i.e. the fear he felt about the horrid inexcusable incarceration conditions that we in the US call "rehabilitation" with a straight face. Of course that's debatable, and there will regardless be people who are dangerous for reasons that are irrational. It also doesn't excuse his behavior, the world has all kinds of problems and we can't accept solving them by whipping out a gun. But the topic deserves contemporaneous consideration. One wonders how many law enforcement have been hurt, citizens hurt, or performing desperate crimes, to avoid incarceration which in the US is so horrible that many people prefer death.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
> horrid inexcusable incarceration conditions that we in the US call "rehabilitation" with a straight face. You show bias
- adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
  the truth is a well known biasing factor
- ldh0011 4y ago
  Is it bias just to criticize calling it rehabilitation? The US has one of the highest recidivism rates in the world, let alone among developed countries. I think it is safe to say there isn't much rehabilitation going on.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
  - PM_me_your_math 4y ago
    At what point does the crime you commit become everyone else's fault?
    - ldh0011 4y ago
      Did I say that? Reducing recidivism benefits everyone in society and helps both would-be victims AND the would-be perpetrators.

PaulHoule 4y ago

What I mean by that is this: if he were to come out shooting the police are well protected by the use of cover and body armor and would almost certainly be able to take him out before he caused them any harm. If the police tried to end the situation by going in they would be taking a risk which would be unacceptable. On the other hand, letting the situation drag on causes it's own problem, not only is it tying up the resources of the department and disrupting the lives of the neighbors, but it also creates a spectacle that makes the department look bad. Adding it all up it is a "no win" situation for the police. If they use too much force they will get blamed. If they let the situation linger on, they get blamed. As it was the man died by his own hand and people did blame the police for this. Sometimes barricade situations end up OK. One of my dad's coworkers freaked out in the 1980s over a situation with his ex-wife and was barricaded against the SWAT team, eventually he surrendered. It is sometimes possible to talk somebody like that into giving up their weapons and surrender, it probably happens most of the time. Sometimes it doesn't.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

Right. I keep seeing "they're only a danger to themselves" but you only really know that in retrospect.