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I'm not impressed by the fainting couch "oh, that authoritarian Vktor Orban" polemics for the same reason I find US political discourse obtuse and genuinely hat

I'm not impressed by the fainting couch "oh, that authoritarian Vktor Orban" polemics for the same reason I find US political discourse obtuse and genuinely hateful. There is a consistent refusal (and inability) to engage with the topic intellectually and a tendency to dwell in emotionalism. It's intellectually shallow and lazy. Orban must be understood in the broader cultural and political context. Fixating on Orban is a way to ignore the problem, a convenient way to scapegoat someone for all the things you don't like, good or bad. Projection abounds. If Orban never was, someone else would take his place. The political rifts today are not merely over policy, but over basic ethical matters and norms. Scapegoating is just a way to avoid having to deal with your real problems by projecting onto someone often superhuman causal powers that would explain why things aren't the way you'd like them to be. Conspiracy theorists do the same thing.

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
You are right in a way, but you can't ignore the influence of powerful individuals on the society in general. Yes, there are many conservatives in Hungary, but it's a whole different level if the person representing them repeatedly breaks the law and pushes things much further. An analogous situation is in Poland. The unofficial ruler of the country declared that Germany is the biggest enemy of Poland, playing on the feelings of the older generation, and is trying to build a narrative around that (the EU servers only Germany, hence EU = evil). That wasn't a narration among Polish conservatives a few years ago, it was constructed by a single person and spread by his minions and the media he is controlling. The biggest absurdity of the last days was when Germany proposed giving Poland Patriots, the Polish defense minister happily agreed as any normal person would, then the day after after the unofficial ruler got berserk he completely changed his opinion and refused to accept them (how can Germans protect Polish sky if we say Germany = Evil?). What a shitshow!
amusedcyclist 4y ago
If any of you were looking to spew a bunch of pseudo intellectual nonsense while distracting from the point at hand. This is a fine example of how to do it
- lzooz 4y ago
  All he's saying is that Hungary is a conservative country and if Orban didn't exist there would be another Orban. That is if you see conservatism as a societal disease which seems to be the case here in HN
  - darthrupert 4y ago
    If conservatism is equal to whatever the fuck Orban is doing, conservatism can permanently fuck off and die. I eon't think it is, though. There's a lot of worth there still, even if the good parts have become obscure. Good parta include freedoms of all kinds and Chicago/Austrian economics.
  - amusedcyclist 4y ago
    Some forms of conservatism are definitely a societal disease and Orban represents exactly that type of conservatism.
  - timeon 4y ago
    Populism is not synonym to conservatism.
mola 4y ago
Orban has actual power to wiels. He's not scapegoated, he makes decisions that transform reality. Of course there's a surrounding circumstances, but our hierarchical system means a single person has tremendous potential to steer a nation. If he uses it to erode certain values then he is to blame a n their erosion. The fact that slightly over than half of the population supported it doesn't mean he is without agency.

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago

You are right in a way, but you can't ignore the influence of powerful individuals on the society in general. Yes, there are many conservatives in Hungary, but it's a whole different level if the person representing them repeatedly breaks the law and pushes things much further. An analogous situation is in Poland. The unofficial ruler of the country declared that Germany is the biggest enemy of Poland, playing on the feelings of the older generation, and is trying to build a narrative around that (the EU servers only Germany, hence EU = evil). That wasn't a narration among Polish conservatives a few years ago, it was constructed by a single person and spread by his minions and the media he is controlling. The biggest absurdity of the last days was when Germany proposed giving Poland Patriots, the Polish defense minister happily agreed as any normal person would, then the day after after the unofficial ruler got berserk he completely changed his opinion and refused to accept them (how can Germans protect Polish sky if we say Germany = Evil?). What a shitshow!

amusedcyclist 4y ago

If any of you were looking to spew a bunch of pseudo intellectual nonsense while distracting from the point at hand. This is a fine example of how to do it

lzooz 4y ago
All he's saying is that Hungary is a conservative country and if Orban didn't exist there would be another Orban. That is if you see conservatism as a societal disease which seems to be the case here in HN
- darthrupert 4y ago
  If conservatism is equal to whatever the fuck Orban is doing, conservatism can permanently fuck off and die. I eon't think it is, though. There's a lot of worth there still, even if the good parts have become obscure. Good parta include freedoms of all kinds and Chicago/Austrian economics.
- amusedcyclist 4y ago
  Some forms of conservatism are definitely a societal disease and Orban represents exactly that type of conservatism.
- timeon 4y ago
  Populism is not synonym to conservatism.

mola 4y ago

Orban has actual power to wiels. He's not scapegoated, he makes decisions that transform reality. Of course there's a surrounding circumstances, but our hierarchical system means a single person has tremendous potential to steer a nation. If he uses it to erode certain values then he is to blame a n their erosion. The fact that slightly over than half of the population supported it doesn't mean he is without agency.