5 ms·

Its the same with obesity, which has been sharply increasing in much of the world since the 1970s, but pretty much all the conventional explanations (increased

Its the same with obesity, which has been sharply increasing in much of the world since the 1970s, but pretty much all the conventional explanations (increased availability, excess sugar, excess carbs, excess fat, decreased physical activity, etc.) don't seem to stand up to scrutiny. Hypothesis: the cause in both cases is likely industrial contaminants considered essential to the running of modern civilization, so nobody wants to, or is encouraged not to, look too hard.

Arete314159 4y ago
I read an interesting study on this. It showed that obesity rates were lower in places like Colorado, and theorized that the reason was that they were at the headwaters of their water source, so there was less opportunity for contaminants to enter their water.
- francisofascii 4y ago
  That is interesting, but probably the reason is the highly active/outdoor culture of Colorado leads to lower obesity rates and people who are less obese move to Colorado.
  - JPKab 4y ago
    Nope. It's altitude. I live in Colorado. The science on this altitude effect has been pretty thoroughly conducted, with potential correlating factors accounted for in multivariate regression models. Denver and its suburbs are FILLED with people who are as unhealthy and inactive as the rest of the country. Even in these places, in the poorest neighborhoods, they are less obese. I have an identical twin brother who lives in Portland, and since I've moved here I've stayed about 10-15 lbs lighter than him. It's a single, anecdotal data point, and completely unscientific, but he swears he eats healthier than me lol.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    In the article series I think parent is referencing[0] they talk about Colorado along with a bunch of other things people come up with based on "common sense". Notably higher altitude alone seems highly correlated with lower obesity and diabetes rates regardless of physical activity. Again, this points to environmental factors. [0] https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- JPKab 4y ago
  I live in Colorado, and I think it's just less oxygen and its effects on metabolism. It's definitely not a topic that's examined enough.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    What are us poor sickle cell heterozygotes to do?
jeffreyrogers 4y ago
Doesn't the existence of anorexia (which appears to be socially transmissible) and the fact that people who take up hobbies like bodybuilding are able to manage their fat levels well suggest that environmental contaminants aren't the whole story? The staple bodybuilding foods are rice and chicken breast. That's about as industrialized as you can get. If there were people getting fat eating broccoli, potatoes, chicken, and salad I would buy the contamination argument, but when you look at what people who have trouble managing their weight actually eat it is never simple foods like that.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  > Doesn't the existence of anorexia (which appears to be socially transmissible) and the fact that people who take up hobbies like bodybuilding are able to manage their fat levels well suggest that environmental contaminants aren't the whole story? No? Genetics is the best predictor of obesity, but as with drugs any contaminant would have varying degrees of effect on the population, including sometimes a paradoxical effect. > If there were people getting fat eating broccoli, potatoes, chicken, and salad I would buy the contamination argument, but when you look at what people who have trouble managing their weight actually eat it is never simple foods like that. And a whole lot of people are not getting fat at all eating foods like and barely exercising. Why do some people have to pay attention to what they eat and others don't? Why has the percentage of the population that is obese increasing?
  - jeffreyrogers 4y ago
    Paradoxical effects are rare and tend to happen only with psychoactive medications. I see very little evidence for paradoxical effects playing a major role, but obviously it can't be ruled out entirely. I don't find paradoxical effects a convincing explanation for anorexia because of how people develop anorexia. You can become anorexic merely by changing your social circle or even your desired social circle, so why would a paradoxical effect occur in that situation when presumably the environment hasn't changed in terms of chemical consumption. > Why has the percentage of the population that is obese increasing? Most likely explanation is that they are eating foods that aren't satiating and that are high calorie, foods that weren't common in the past. Like I said earlier, people who are eating simple foods like the ones I listed don't get fat. Genetics seems to play a role in that some people can eat junk and feel full but most can't.

Arete314159 4y ago

I read an interesting study on this. It showed that obesity rates were lower in places like Colorado, and theorized that the reason was that they were at the headwaters of their water source, so there was less opportunity for contaminants to enter their water.

francisofascii 4y ago
That is interesting, but probably the reason is the highly active/outdoor culture of Colorado leads to lower obesity rates and people who are less obese move to Colorado.
- JPKab 4y ago
  Nope. It's altitude. I live in Colorado. The science on this altitude effect has been pretty thoroughly conducted, with potential correlating factors accounted for in multivariate regression models. Denver and its suburbs are FILLED with people who are as unhealthy and inactive as the rest of the country. Even in these places, in the poorest neighborhoods, they are less obese. I have an identical twin brother who lives in Portland, and since I've moved here I've stayed about 10-15 lbs lighter than him. It's a single, anecdotal data point, and completely unscientific, but he swears he eats healthier than me lol.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  In the article series I think parent is referencing[0] they talk about Colorado along with a bunch of other things people come up with based on "common sense". Notably higher altitude alone seems highly correlated with lower obesity and diabetes rates regardless of physical activity. Again, this points to environmental factors. [0] https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-part-i-mysteries/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
JPKab 4y ago
I live in Colorado, and I think it's just less oxygen and its effects on metabolism. It's definitely not a topic that's examined enough.
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  What are us poor sickle cell heterozygotes to do?

jeffreyrogers 4y ago

Doesn't the existence of anorexia (which appears to be socially transmissible) and the fact that people who take up hobbies like bodybuilding are able to manage their fat levels well suggest that environmental contaminants aren't the whole story? The staple bodybuilding foods are rice and chicken breast. That's about as industrialized as you can get. If there were people getting fat eating broccoli, potatoes, chicken, and salad I would buy the contamination argument, but when you look at what people who have trouble managing their weight actually eat it is never simple foods like that.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
> Doesn't the existence of anorexia (which appears to be socially transmissible) and the fact that people who take up hobbies like bodybuilding are able to manage their fat levels well suggest that environmental contaminants aren't the whole story? No? Genetics is the best predictor of obesity, but as with drugs any contaminant would have varying degrees of effect on the population, including sometimes a paradoxical effect. > If there were people getting fat eating broccoli, potatoes, chicken, and salad I would buy the contamination argument, but when you look at what people who have trouble managing their weight actually eat it is never simple foods like that. And a whole lot of people are not getting fat at all eating foods like and barely exercising. Why do some people have to pay attention to what they eat and others don't? Why has the percentage of the population that is obese increasing?
- jeffreyrogers 4y ago
  Paradoxical effects are rare and tend to happen only with psychoactive medications. I see very little evidence for paradoxical effects playing a major role, but obviously it can't be ruled out entirely. I don't find paradoxical effects a convincing explanation for anorexia because of how people develop anorexia. You can become anorexic merely by changing your social circle or even your desired social circle, so why would a paradoxical effect occur in that situation when presumably the environment hasn't changed in terms of chemical consumption. > Why has the percentage of the population that is obese increasing? Most likely explanation is that they are eating foods that aren't satiating and that are high calorie, foods that weren't common in the past. Like I said earlier, people who are eating simple foods like the ones I listed don't get fat. Genetics seems to play a role in that some people can eat junk and feel full but most can't.