9 ms·

There’s an easy solution, make it illegal to exchange cryptocurrency for dollars (and vise-versa) and the problem will solve itself. Crypto has no use case if y

There’s an easy solution, make it illegal to exchange cryptocurrency for dollars (and vise-versa) and the problem will solve itself. Crypto has no use case if you can’t convert to and from dollars.

affgrff2 4y ago
Can't you use it as a stand alone currency for the exchange of goods?
- bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
  Yes. Even if every country in the world “banned” it. It would still be used as such.
  - chitowneats 4y ago
    So let me get this straight. I can't be paid in it, and I can't pay rent with it or buy groceries with it. Sure, there would be hobbyists who conduct trivial transactions with their monopoly money. But no, this would not even be a small fraction of overall economic activity in such a scenario.
    - jjk166 4y ago
      No, you can still be paid in it and still pay rent with it or buy groceries with it. You can't exchange a bitcoin for cash, but you can exchange bitcoin for something that has cash value.
      - chitowneats 4y ago
        Please let me know when the first ever major employer offers a paycheck in BTC, and when the first ever landlord offers rent payment in BTC. Oh, and most importantly. When the U.S. government will allow me to pay my taxes in BTC. Until then, this is a thought experiment. I'm not holding my breath.
        bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
        Employers offering paycheck in BTC: https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2014/11/04/bitwage-now-lets-any-employee-get-paid-in-bitcoin/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2014/11/04/bitwage-now-lets... https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/041-22/mayor-adams-receive-first-paycheck-cryptocurrency https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/041-22/mayor-ad... Landlords offering payment in BTC: https://www.american-apartment-owners-association.org/property-management/marketing-vacant-units/apartment-listing-service-accepting-bitcoin-landlords/ https://www.american-apartment-owners-association.org/proper... U.S. government allowing you to pay taxes in BTC: you can take your btc and turn it into usd and pay taxes that way - and would need to on your capital gains. Lots of reading for you to do!
        chitowneats 4y ago
        So do you considering that you missed that the entire premise of this thread was, "what happens if the U.S. government bans the exchange of BTC and dollars?". In that instance, bitcoin would lose nearly ~100% of its current market value due to anyone with a brain dumping it.
- infecto 4y ago
  Over the past N years since bitcoin came into being, I have yet to see a real use for exchange of goods that is running at scale. The cost to move coins/token has always been too high or the use was never at real scale.
- acdha 4y ago
  Theoretically but it’s a weak fiat currency with high overhead and no intrinsic value, and it’s risky for anyone to use if they are not complying with local law. There are very few cases where someone’s best option is to pay more to use bitcoin despite the drawbacks.
  - BirAdam 4y ago
    Nothing has intrinsic value as value is subjective. Things may have inherent human utility, but in the case of cryptocurrency, there is certainly utility. The true utility of a cryptocurrency is the blockchain itself as way to perform escrow, saving, spending, and transaction auditing without a human intermediary. Despite all of this, I will grant that so far it would seem that the financial and material costs of crypto are higher than the benefits lowering overall utility.
    - acdha 4y ago
      > Nothing has intrinsic value as value is subjective. Yeah, yeah, and reality has no meaning because everything is subjective. That's great as a dorm-room topic at 4am but it's not a useful distinction here because there's a huge practical difference. Bitcoin uses random hashes which nobody cares about except to the extent that someone else will give them some tangible value in exchange for them. That's different from almost any other fiat currency because most of them are linked to a functioning economy and have some built-in demand where a government requires use for taxes, procurements, salaries, etc. Quality varies, of course, which is why some currencies are stronger than others but Bitcoin is an extreme outlier in the sense that almost nobody has any need to use it except when they think it's financially advantageous. This is why it's so volatile: someone who has purchased a lot of Bitcoin has an incentive to get other people to buy into the system so they can make money off of it but nobody else shares that reason. Using Bitcoin could make sense if it was cheaper but there are many alternatives and unless you have an ideological commitment you're most likely to pick whatever fits your preferred balance of easiness, cost, and safety. That could some day be Bitcoin but it hasn't been for the last decade and a half except in a few cases involving unusual circumstances.
- cjglo 4y ago
  In fairness, all the businesses that currently accept it (at least in America) as a method of payment would likely stop accepting it if they couldn’t exchange it for dollars.
np- 4y ago
Banning is the "easy solution"--just as easy as banning alcohol, drugs, and gambling has been in the past. What banning money exchanges will do is 1) drive it underground to money exchanges being done by unsavory characters who have no issues committing crimes up to and including physical violence, 2) Drive up enforcement costs and create an entire police enterprise whose mandate and funding depend on hunting these unsavory characters, 3) Deprive Uncle Sam of any and all tax revenue from capital gains, etc, etc... I mean, all of this literally happened with alcohol, with cannabis, etc etc. Are we just going to keep repeating this cycle forever.
- TigeriusKirk 4y ago
  > Drive up enforcement costs and create an entire police enterprise This is a feature if you're the government.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Those other things are desirable in themselves. Cryptocurrency seems unlikely to fit the same mould.
  - SlickNixon 4y ago
    Wait until you find out what people buy with cryptocurrency.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      Sure, but at that point the cryptocurrency is a means to an end, not the end itself.
      - SlickNixon 4y ago
        A buyer's intentions after the purchase of an illicit item have zero relevance to the evasion of law enforcement during the purchase itself.
        4y ago
bena 4y ago
That is an easy solution. But it's neither a feasible solution nor a good one. There are plenty of things that you currently can't legally exchange for dollars. But it happens.
x86x87 4y ago
It always amazes me how trigger happy people are when it comes to banning things they don't like/don't agree with. Think about something that you like/strongly support getting banned. How would that make you feel? Did the gov try banning stuff in the past? How did that work out?
starkd 4y ago
Whatever people choose to place value in with their transactions cannot be easily regulated by banning it.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jjk166 4y ago
The whole point of cryptocurrencies is that they're not supposed to be converted to and from dollars - their use case is to bypass fiat currencies such as the dollar and more specifically the centralized institutions necessary to process transactions in fiat currency. If you sell goods or services for a bitcoin, you can buy a bitcoin worth of stuff. If bitcoin happens to be worth $15k, that means you can buy $15k worth of stuff, but the important thing is at no point in time do you need to convert your bitcoin into $15k.
- salawat 4y ago
  If you are measuring the value of your BTC in USD, you already kinda lost there. Furthermore, you just handily stated cryptocurrency's true purpose, which is avoiding the modern world's curbs on the more destructive habits of unregulated finance. You are not painting yourself into a good corner with a lot of more normal people here.
  - jjk166 4y ago
    I'm not measuring the value of BTC in USD, I clearly stated 1 bitcoin for 1 bitcoin worth of stuff. That stuff will invariably also have a USD value, and similarly a EUR value, and a Yen value, because that's how currencies work. And just as you can say a EUR is worth 1.05 USD, you can say a BTC is worth 15k USD. Yes, I stated bitcoin's purpose, but I said nothing about avoiding financial regulations. What I was referring to was ledger keeping. I am quite happy with the corner I'm in. May I ask why you are opposed to and seek to vilify something you don't use, understand, or are in any other way affected by?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

affgrff2 4y ago

Can't you use it as a stand alone currency for the exchange of goods?

bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
Yes. Even if every country in the world “banned” it. It would still be used as such.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  So let me get this straight. I can't be paid in it, and I can't pay rent with it or buy groceries with it. Sure, there would be hobbyists who conduct trivial transactions with their monopoly money. But no, this would not even be a small fraction of overall economic activity in such a scenario.
  - jjk166 4y ago
    No, you can still be paid in it and still pay rent with it or buy groceries with it. You can't exchange a bitcoin for cash, but you can exchange bitcoin for something that has cash value.
    - chitowneats 4y ago
      Please let me know when the first ever major employer offers a paycheck in BTC, and when the first ever landlord offers rent payment in BTC. Oh, and most importantly. When the U.S. government will allow me to pay my taxes in BTC. Until then, this is a thought experiment. I'm not holding my breath.
      - bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
        Employers offering paycheck in BTC: https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2014/11/04/bitwage-now-lets-any-employee-get-paid-in-bitcoin/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2014/11/04/bitwage-now-lets... https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/041-22/mayor-adams-receive-first-paycheck-cryptocurrency https://www.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/041-22/mayor-ad... Landlords offering payment in BTC: https://www.american-apartment-owners-association.org/property-management/marketing-vacant-units/apartment-listing-service-accepting-bitcoin-landlords/ https://www.american-apartment-owners-association.org/proper... U.S. government allowing you to pay taxes in BTC: you can take your btc and turn it into usd and pay taxes that way - and would need to on your capital gains. Lots of reading for you to do!
        chitowneats 4y ago
        So do you considering that you missed that the entire premise of this thread was, "what happens if the U.S. government bans the exchange of BTC and dollars?". In that instance, bitcoin would lose nearly ~100% of its current market value due to anyone with a brain dumping it.
infecto 4y ago
Over the past N years since bitcoin came into being, I have yet to see a real use for exchange of goods that is running at scale. The cost to move coins/token has always been too high or the use was never at real scale.
acdha 4y ago
Theoretically but it’s a weak fiat currency with high overhead and no intrinsic value, and it’s risky for anyone to use if they are not complying with local law. There are very few cases where someone’s best option is to pay more to use bitcoin despite the drawbacks.
- BirAdam 4y ago
  Nothing has intrinsic value as value is subjective. Things may have inherent human utility, but in the case of cryptocurrency, there is certainly utility. The true utility of a cryptocurrency is the blockchain itself as way to perform escrow, saving, spending, and transaction auditing without a human intermediary. Despite all of this, I will grant that so far it would seem that the financial and material costs of crypto are higher than the benefits lowering overall utility.
  - acdha 4y ago
    > Nothing has intrinsic value as value is subjective. Yeah, yeah, and reality has no meaning because everything is subjective. That's great as a dorm-room topic at 4am but it's not a useful distinction here because there's a huge practical difference. Bitcoin uses random hashes which nobody cares about except to the extent that someone else will give them some tangible value in exchange for them. That's different from almost any other fiat currency because most of them are linked to a functioning economy and have some built-in demand where a government requires use for taxes, procurements, salaries, etc. Quality varies, of course, which is why some currencies are stronger than others but Bitcoin is an extreme outlier in the sense that almost nobody has any need to use it except when they think it's financially advantageous. This is why it's so volatile: someone who has purchased a lot of Bitcoin has an incentive to get other people to buy into the system so they can make money off of it but nobody else shares that reason. Using Bitcoin could make sense if it was cheaper but there are many alternatives and unless you have an ideological commitment you're most likely to pick whatever fits your preferred balance of easiness, cost, and safety. That could some day be Bitcoin but it hasn't been for the last decade and a half except in a few cases involving unusual circumstances.
cjglo 4y ago
In fairness, all the businesses that currently accept it (at least in America) as a method of payment would likely stop accepting it if they couldn’t exchange it for dollars.

np- 4y ago

Banning is the "easy solution"--just as easy as banning alcohol, drugs, and gambling has been in the past. What banning money exchanges will do is 1) drive it underground to money exchanges being done by unsavory characters who have no issues committing crimes up to and including physical violence, 2) Drive up enforcement costs and create an entire police enterprise whose mandate and funding depend on hunting these unsavory characters, 3) Deprive Uncle Sam of any and all tax revenue from capital gains, etc, etc... I mean, all of this literally happened with alcohol, with cannabis, etc etc. Are we just going to keep repeating this cycle forever.

TigeriusKirk 4y ago
> Drive up enforcement costs and create an entire police enterprise This is a feature if you're the government.
Nursie 4y ago
Those other things are desirable in themselves. Cryptocurrency seems unlikely to fit the same mould.
- SlickNixon 4y ago
  Wait until you find out what people buy with cryptocurrency.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    Sure, but at that point the cryptocurrency is a means to an end, not the end itself.
    - SlickNixon 4y ago
      A buyer's intentions after the purchase of an illicit item have zero relevance to the evasion of law enforcement during the purchase itself.
      - 4y ago

bena 4y ago

That is an easy solution. But it's neither a feasible solution nor a good one. There are plenty of things that you currently can't legally exchange for dollars. But it happens.

x86x87 4y ago

It always amazes me how trigger happy people are when it comes to banning things they don't like/don't agree with. Think about something that you like/strongly support getting banned. How would that make you feel? Did the gov try banning stuff in the past? How did that work out?

starkd 4y ago

Whatever people choose to place value in with their transactions cannot be easily regulated by banning it.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jjk166 4y ago

The whole point of cryptocurrencies is that they're not supposed to be converted to and from dollars - their use case is to bypass fiat currencies such as the dollar and more specifically the centralized institutions necessary to process transactions in fiat currency. If you sell goods or services for a bitcoin, you can buy a bitcoin worth of stuff. If bitcoin happens to be worth $15k, that means you can buy $15k worth of stuff, but the important thing is at no point in time do you need to convert your bitcoin into $15k.

salawat 4y ago
If you are measuring the value of your BTC in USD, you already kinda lost there. Furthermore, you just handily stated cryptocurrency's true purpose, which is avoiding the modern world's curbs on the more destructive habits of unregulated finance. You are not painting yourself into a good corner with a lot of more normal people here.
- jjk166 4y ago
  I'm not measuring the value of BTC in USD, I clearly stated 1 bitcoin for 1 bitcoin worth of stuff. That stuff will invariably also have a USD value, and similarly a EUR value, and a Yen value, because that's how currencies work. And just as you can say a EUR is worth 1.05 USD, you can say a BTC is worth 15k USD. Yes, I stated bitcoin's purpose, but I said nothing about avoiding financial regulations. What I was referring to was ledger keeping. I am quite happy with the corner I'm in. May I ask why you are opposed to and seek to vilify something you don't use, understand, or are in any other way affected by?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]