14 ms·

But are they? https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/05/fears-over-falling-human-sperm-count-may-be-overblown/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/

But are they? https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/05/fears-over-falling-human-sperm-count-may-be-overblown/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/05/fears-over-fa...

rayiner 4y ago
> In addition, they argued that the design of the 2017 study relied on racist and colonial hierarchies and assumptions This response sounds like real science for sure.
- compiskey 4y ago
- rahMen838 4y ago
- strix_varius 4y ago
  > “By proposing an alternative approach to sperm count data, we aim to contribute to the burgeoning discussion among reproductive health scientists and other researchers and clinicians about men’s health,” said Boulicault, lead author of the paper and a doctoral candidate in the Department of Philosophy and Linguistics at MIT A Philosophy & Linguistics PhD - just who you should trust to analyze medical results!
  - apocalypstyx 4y ago
    Personally, I have a hard time putting much stock in the opinion of those who use exclamation points.
    - siftrics 4y ago
      What a ridiculous statement.
ghiculescu 4y ago
I read both links. This one sounds like a bunch of woke people unhappy that mens health is getting attention. The other study sounds legitimate.
- richbell 4y ago
  I thought you were being hyperbolic but the linked article and study does seem to miss the forest for the trees. Surely it's possible to acknowledge the flaws of a measure without devolving into ideological and cultural warfare? > In addition, they argued that the design of the 2017 study relied on racist and colonial hierarchies and assumptions because it categorized data as “Western” sperm counts or “Other” sperm counts. > Further, the claims of decline were based on a “species optimum” of Anglophone developed nations of the 1970s, which the researchers argued was scientifically unsound. The GenderSci Lab team warned that this kind of Eurocentric focus has been used by alt-right, white supremacist, and men’s rights activists to argue that the health and fertility of men in Western nations is being threatened, particularly by feminist and anti-racist movements.
  - cal5k 4y ago
    Yikes. What the heck is going on in academia.
    - Der_Einzige 4y ago
      Related, men are mass opting out of academia. It's so bad now that they have to have affirmative action for men. https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-university-fall-higher-education-men-women-enrollment-admissions-back-to-school-11630948233 https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-university-fall-higher-...
  - marcus0x62 4y ago
    > Surely it's possible to acknowledge the flaws of a measure without devolving into ideological and cultural warfare? When a professor of linguistics decides it is appropriate to write a paper criticizing a study about falling sperm counts, I don’t think that is a safe bet.
HideousKojima 4y ago
"The extraordinary biological claims of the meta-analysis of sperm count trends and the public attention it continues to garner raised questions for the GenderSci Lab, which specializes in analyzing bias and hype in the sciences of sex, gender, and reproduction and in the intersectional study of race, gender, and science,” said Richardson, director of the GenderSci Lab, and a professor of the history of science and of studies of women, gender, and sexuality." "In addition, they argued that the design of the 2017 study relied on racist and colonial hierarchies" I get that everyone has their biases, but this sounds like it's up there with the feminist approaches to rocket science that claim rockets are shaped the way they are for Freudian reasons. The only specific claim your linked article is making against the actual studies/data is that there is not nearly as much data for Asian, African, and South American countries as there is for Europe and North America. Which is a great point, we need more data, but it doesn't really undermine or debunk any of the other claims being made.
Deukhoofd 4y ago
That article is not saying sperm counts are not dropping, but arguing that that is not linked with dropping fertility (and that the original study is racist for only including western countries or something).
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  To be fair I think it is kinda racist to categorize sperm as either "Western" sperm vs "other" sperm. They couldn't do the bare fucking minimum and at least separate by continent or wealth? Health?
  - 310260 4y ago
    It is really weird the original study decided to categorize it this way. Especially because there are potentially drastic environmental differences between say the US and Australia. Same goes for the "Other" category. How are China and Brazil similar?
  - twixfel 4y ago
    Maybe it's not the bare minimum? Maybe they had limited funding, largely access only to "Western sperm" (which actually is a reasonable category I would argue because we share a lifestyle to a greater or lesser degree), maybe they had sparse data that covered simply "not the West".
    - 310260 4y ago
      If you have sparse data, then maybe you shouldn't be making grand comparisons or trying to make claims about the entire world?
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      If they had access largely only to "western" sperm then they could separate it out by country, or income, or something more sane. It's not like the rest of the world shares a lifestyle!
- rob74 4y ago
throwawaysleep 4y ago
A study not written by a scientist to oppose scientists. Allowing literature/philosophy people to publish on everything is as bad as allowing antivaxxers everywhere.
- 310260 4y ago
  It's not saying the study is flat-out wrong. It's critiquing specific aspects of its reasoning and categorization. Not at all comparable to antivaxxers.
Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
>Study aims to quell fears over falling human sperm count At least they are open about the fact that they have determined the conclusion beforehand.
goatcode 4y ago
>This framework is designed to take into account a wide range of locations, individual conditions, and other data that can contribute to changing trends in sperm counts. So, just count everyone and diminish the geographical factor in a problem. OK, let's ignore the problem until everyone is affected. Seems pretty un-legit.

But are they? https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/05/fears-over-falling-human-sperm-count-may-be-overblown/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2021/05/fears-over-fa...

rayiner 4y ago

> In addition, they argued that the design of the 2017 study relied on racist and colonial hierarchies and assumptions This response sounds like real science for sure.

compiskey 4y ago
rahMen838 4y ago
strix_varius 4y ago
> “By proposing an alternative approach to sperm count data, we aim to contribute to the burgeoning discussion among reproductive health scientists and other researchers and clinicians about men’s health,” said Boulicault, lead author of the paper and a doctoral candidate in the Department of Philosophy and Linguistics at MIT A Philosophy & Linguistics PhD - just who you should trust to analyze medical results!
- apocalypstyx 4y ago
  Personally, I have a hard time putting much stock in the opinion of those who use exclamation points.
  - siftrics 4y ago
    What a ridiculous statement.

ghiculescu 4y ago

I read both links. This one sounds like a bunch of woke people unhappy that mens health is getting attention. The other study sounds legitimate.

richbell 4y ago
I thought you were being hyperbolic but the linked article and study does seem to miss the forest for the trees. Surely it's possible to acknowledge the flaws of a measure without devolving into ideological and cultural warfare? > In addition, they argued that the design of the 2017 study relied on racist and colonial hierarchies and assumptions because it categorized data as “Western” sperm counts or “Other” sperm counts. > Further, the claims of decline were based on a “species optimum” of Anglophone developed nations of the 1970s, which the researchers argued was scientifically unsound. The GenderSci Lab team warned that this kind of Eurocentric focus has been used by alt-right, white supremacist, and men’s rights activists to argue that the health and fertility of men in Western nations is being threatened, particularly by feminist and anti-racist movements.
- cal5k 4y ago
  Yikes. What the heck is going on in academia.
  - Der_Einzige 4y ago
    Related, men are mass opting out of academia. It's so bad now that they have to have affirmative action for men. https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-university-fall-higher-education-men-women-enrollment-admissions-back-to-school-11630948233 https://www.wsj.com/articles/college-university-fall-higher-...
- marcus0x62 4y ago
  > Surely it's possible to acknowledge the flaws of a measure without devolving into ideological and cultural warfare? When a professor of linguistics decides it is appropriate to write a paper criticizing a study about falling sperm counts, I don’t think that is a safe bet.

HideousKojima 4y ago

"The extraordinary biological claims of the meta-analysis of sperm count trends and the public attention it continues to garner raised questions for the GenderSci Lab, which specializes in analyzing bias and hype in the sciences of sex, gender, and reproduction and in the intersectional study of race, gender, and science,” said Richardson, director of the GenderSci Lab, and a professor of the history of science and of studies of women, gender, and sexuality." "In addition, they argued that the design of the 2017 study relied on racist and colonial hierarchies" I get that everyone has their biases, but this sounds like it's up there with the feminist approaches to rocket science that claim rockets are shaped the way they are for Freudian reasons. The only specific claim your linked article is making against the actual studies/data is that there is not nearly as much data for Asian, African, and South American countries as there is for Europe and North America. Which is a great point, we need more data, but it doesn't really undermine or debunk any of the other claims being made.

Deukhoofd 4y ago

That article is not saying sperm counts are not dropping, but arguing that that is not linked with dropping fertility (and that the original study is racist for only including western countries or something).

PuppyTailWags 4y ago
To be fair I think it is kinda racist to categorize sperm as either "Western" sperm vs "other" sperm. They couldn't do the bare fucking minimum and at least separate by continent or wealth? Health?
- 310260 4y ago
  It is really weird the original study decided to categorize it this way. Especially because there are potentially drastic environmental differences between say the US and Australia. Same goes for the "Other" category. How are China and Brazil similar?
- twixfel 4y ago
  Maybe it's not the bare minimum? Maybe they had limited funding, largely access only to "Western sperm" (which actually is a reasonable category I would argue because we share a lifestyle to a greater or lesser degree), maybe they had sparse data that covered simply "not the West".
  - 310260 4y ago
    If you have sparse data, then maybe you shouldn't be making grand comparisons or trying to make claims about the entire world?
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    If they had access largely only to "western" sperm then they could separate it out by country, or income, or something more sane. It's not like the rest of the world shares a lifestyle!
rob74 4y ago

throwawaysleep 4y ago

A study not written by a scientist to oppose scientists. Allowing literature/philosophy people to publish on everything is as bad as allowing antivaxxers everywhere.

310260 4y ago
It's not saying the study is flat-out wrong. It's critiquing specific aspects of its reasoning and categorization. Not at all comparable to antivaxxers.

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago

>Study aims to quell fears over falling human sperm count At least they are open about the fact that they have determined the conclusion beforehand.

goatcode 4y ago

>This framework is designed to take into account a wide range of locations, individual conditions, and other data that can contribute to changing trends in sperm counts. So, just count everyone and diminish the geographical factor in a problem. OK, let's ignore the problem until everyone is affected. Seems pretty un-legit.