5 ms·

>Apple spent something like a half-trillion on share buybacks. They could have averted this crisis a decade ago by thinking strategically. I don't understand t

>Apple spent something like a half-trillion on share buybacks. They could have averted this crisis a decade ago by thinking strategically. I don't understand the fixation on this. Share buybacks strengthen the stock price of the company, which the company can leverage in the future to raise more capital if needed (by re-releasing new shares to the market). From that perspective, they are better than dividends. Besides, right now, Apple isn't strapped for cash as they have around ~50 billion on-hand and could raise more if they wanted to. So Apple can still invest more in fab processes if that's what they want.

anotherman554 4y ago
"Share buybacks strengthen the stock price of the company, which the company can leverage in the future to raise more capital if needed (by re-releasing new shares to the market). From that perspective, they are better than dividends." You are confused. A 100 dollar company with 100 shares outstanding, each worth 1 dollar, is not better able to raise capital than a 100 dollar company with 50 shares outstanding, each worth 2 dollars. And even if it were a reverse stock split can convert the former to the latter.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ajhurliman 4y ago
  In the case where there are 50 shares outstanding and each are worth 2 dollars, that would be true, but if there's a constant appetite for the public to invest in a company and a diminished number of shares, that would drive up the price.
  - anotherman554 4y ago
    That might be how you imagine the stock market works based on first principles but Investopedia tells us "The most liquid stocks tend to be those with a great deal of interest from various market actors and a lot of daily transaction volume. Such stocks will also attract a larger number of market makers who maintain a tighter two-sided market." https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/liquidity.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/liquidity.asp In other words the more appetite for the stock, the more liquid the stock, and therefore the easier it is for a buyer to acquire the stock. This is presumably because stock market indexes will refuse to include an illiquid stock, meaning there will be less demand for the stock, and the stock price will drop. Apple did a 4 for 1 stock split in 2020. Do you really think they screwed over their investors because you know something they don't about how stocks are valued?
anigbrowl 4y ago
> From that perspective, they are better than dividends This is kinda circular when you think about it. 'Strengthening the stock price' is just artificial scarcity, and incentivizes further financialization (by incentivizing borrowing with the stock as collateral) rather than simply distributing the profit or reinvesting it.

anotherman554 4y ago

"Share buybacks strengthen the stock price of the company, which the company can leverage in the future to raise more capital if needed (by re-releasing new shares to the market). From that perspective, they are better than dividends." You are confused. A 100 dollar company with 100 shares outstanding, each worth 1 dollar, is not better able to raise capital than a 100 dollar company with 50 shares outstanding, each worth 2 dollars. And even if it were a reverse stock split can convert the former to the latter.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ajhurliman 4y ago
In the case where there are 50 shares outstanding and each are worth 2 dollars, that would be true, but if there's a constant appetite for the public to invest in a company and a diminished number of shares, that would drive up the price.
- anotherman554 4y ago
  That might be how you imagine the stock market works based on first principles but Investopedia tells us "The most liquid stocks tend to be those with a great deal of interest from various market actors and a lot of daily transaction volume. Such stocks will also attract a larger number of market makers who maintain a tighter two-sided market." https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/liquidity.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/liquidity.asp In other words the more appetite for the stock, the more liquid the stock, and therefore the easier it is for a buyer to acquire the stock. This is presumably because stock market indexes will refuse to include an illiquid stock, meaning there will be less demand for the stock, and the stock price will drop. Apple did a 4 for 1 stock split in 2020. Do you really think they screwed over their investors because you know something they don't about how stocks are valued?

anigbrowl 4y ago

> From that perspective, they are better than dividends This is kinda circular when you think about it. 'Strengthening the stock price' is just artificial scarcity, and incentivizes further financialization (by incentivizing borrowing with the stock as collateral) rather than simply distributing the profit or reinvesting it.