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> so break one of the only stable, reliable, useful No, people would be free to use the Apple App store if they want. Apple simply wouldn't be able force the

by stale2002 4y ago

> so break one of the only stable, reliable, useful No, people would be free to use the Apple App store if they want. Apple simply wouldn't be able force the world to pay them 30% of everything anymore. Theyd have to compete on their merits, and people would now have full ownership of their own phone. > The trains suck and I hope my devices don't go the same way. So, what, you just support the railway monopoly and oppose the Sherman antitrust act? Please explicitly say whether or not you think the Sherman anti trust act, should be repealed, and all monopolies in the world, and anti competitive behavior, should be legal. But let's try a different example, since apparently you support the railway monopoly. I would hope, that you would oppose it Microsoft put a 30% fee on every online transaction, and kicked off all competing web browsers that tried to get around it. Imagine if every computer in the world, you could only use internet explorer, and they forced you to pay them 30%, and use IE. Surely you'd have to admit that this should be illegal, for such a monopoly to be enforced like that? > Why not just throw our the US government and install the CCP too? The Sherman anti-trust act is a pretty uncontroversial law. Surely you can't be saying that our existing uncontroversial anti trust laws, that have been around for a century, are the same as laws in China? > This again is coming from someone who works with and on open source software Then you should support people being allowed to do what they want, with their own phone. You are the one who supports authoritarianism, if you oppose people being able to control their own device, that they purchased.

bamboozled 4y ago
> Imagine if every computer in the world, you could only use internet explorer, and they forced you to pay them 30%, and use IE. Absolutely nothing like this is happening though, so what's your point? I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? > But let's try a different example, since apparently you support the railway monopoly. I don't support the railway monopoly you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that breaking it up did nothing really useful. Shit trains still exist.
- stale2002 4y ago
  > Absolutely nothing like this is happening though, so what's your point? I am saying that the fact that this is illegal, because of the sherman anti-trust act, is a good thing. Anti-trust laws are not some crazy, extreme example of authoritarianism. Therefore, because I hope you can agree that it is good that we use government force, to prevent this, you cannot act in fake shock outrage, at the idea of using uncontroversial, and obviously good laws, such as the sherman anti-trust act. > I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? Apple prevents you from using your own phone to pay for apps that do not give them the 30% fee. So, because Apple, in an authoritarian way, does not let you use your own property in this way, without a 30% fee paid to them, this is similar to another example of Microsoft not allowing you to install anything at all on your home PC, without paying them a 30% fee.
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    You seem to be trying very hard to convince me Apple truly is an evil company and without the government, it won't be. This is why I'm not keen to continue this thread. This type of hyperbolic sentence: So, because Apple, in an authoritarian way, does not let you use your own property in this way, doesn't strengthen your argument, it weakens it. Don't get my wrong, I understand it, Apple phones aren't an open source utopia where you can do whatever you like with it, you know as good as me that it's peoples choice to participate in that type of system and many choose to own a locked down device as a trade off for security, stability and convenience. People aren't rioting in the streets over this. _People are choosing to enter the Apple eco-system for various reasons, there's no "Authoritarian regime" forcing you to use an iPhone._ Apple is popular because they make good products as far as I'm concerned and that's part of living in a free society. That someone can start a company that is successful like Apple and that people are allowed to buy Apple products, or not buy them.
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  > I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? Actually, you run Safari. Firefox and Chrome on iOS are just Safari with some different browser chrome. This happens because Apple has banned all other browser and JavaScript engines on iOS other than their own. Gecko, SpiderMonkey, Blink, etc are all banned on iOS. Mozilla isn't able to actually bring real Firefox to iOS because of this, and has to settle with a reskinned Safari parading around as Firefox in order to stay relevant. Same thing goes for Google and Chrome, it's just browser chrome on top of Safari's browser engine.
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    It's a good point, but I feel ok with it at the moment.

bamboozled 4y ago

> Imagine if every computer in the world, you could only use internet explorer, and they forced you to pay them 30%, and use IE. Absolutely nothing like this is happening though, so what's your point? I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? > But let's try a different example, since apparently you support the railway monopoly. I don't support the railway monopoly you're putting words in my mouth. I'm saying that breaking it up did nothing really useful. Shit trains still exist.

stale2002 4y ago
> Absolutely nothing like this is happening though, so what's your point? I am saying that the fact that this is illegal, because of the sherman anti-trust act, is a good thing. Anti-trust laws are not some crazy, extreme example of authoritarianism. Therefore, because I hope you can agree that it is good that we use government force, to prevent this, you cannot act in fake shock outrage, at the idea of using uncontroversial, and obviously good laws, such as the sherman anti-trust act. > I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? Apple prevents you from using your own phone to pay for apps that do not give them the 30% fee. So, because Apple, in an authoritarian way, does not let you use your own property in this way, without a 30% fee paid to them, this is similar to another example of Microsoft not allowing you to install anything at all on your home PC, without paying them a 30% fee.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  You seem to be trying very hard to convince me Apple truly is an evil company and without the government, it won't be. This is why I'm not keen to continue this thread. This type of hyperbolic sentence: So, because Apple, in an authoritarian way, does not let you use your own property in this way, doesn't strengthen your argument, it weakens it. Don't get my wrong, I understand it, Apple phones aren't an open source utopia where you can do whatever you like with it, you know as good as me that it's peoples choice to participate in that type of system and many choose to own a locked down device as a trade off for security, stability and convenience. People aren't rioting in the streets over this. _People are choosing to enter the Apple eco-system for various reasons, there's no "Authoritarian regime" forcing you to use an iPhone._ Apple is popular because they make good products as far as I'm concerned and that's part of living in a free society. That someone can start a company that is successful like Apple and that people are allowed to buy Apple products, or not buy them.
heavyset_go 4y ago
> I run Firefox on my iPhone, it's free? Actually, you run Safari. Firefox and Chrome on iOS are just Safari with some different browser chrome. This happens because Apple has banned all other browser and JavaScript engines on iOS other than their own. Gecko, SpiderMonkey, Blink, etc are all banned on iOS. Mozilla isn't able to actually bring real Firefox to iOS because of this, and has to settle with a reskinned Safari parading around as Firefox in order to stay relevant. Same thing goes for Google and Chrome, it's just browser chrome on top of Safari's browser engine.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  It's a good point, but I feel ok with it at the moment.