3 ms·

Likewise, certain US groups who pointed to total deaths not only ignored comorbidities but also that the average age of death for a Covid victim is past the ave

Likewise, certain US groups who pointed to total deaths not only ignored comorbidities but also that the average age of death for a Covid victim is past the average age of life expectancy. They then and still are trying to push vaccines on cohorts that absolutely do not need them (see numerous EU countries who are not doing this). On top of that, they managed to convince many US citizens that vaccines prevented transmission as part of their efforts to force vaccines on everyone. Go check some past HN threads for a wild ride! Bonus points are awarded for obesity being a major risk factor that we’ve done 0 to address post Covid despite the absolutely massive benefits we’d see from it - Id wager far outstripping masking or vaccinating. Externalities for thee but not for me, I guess.

BobbyJo 4y ago
> Likewise, certain US groups who pointed to total deaths not only ignored comorbidities but also that the average age of death for a Covid victim is past the average age of life expectancy. Did they ignore them, or were they just not devaluing the lives of the sick and elderly? If 10,000,000 people are dead that would otherwise be living, standing up and saying "but they were old or fat!" has a kind of asshole sting to it, no? > They then and still are trying to push vaccines on cohorts that absolutely do not need them (see numerous EU countries who are not doing this). Vaccines aren't just for the people that get them. They are for the people around them as well. I'm a perfectly healthy 35 year old, but I visit my 90 year old grandfather often, and live in a community with many elderly. If the vaccine makes me less likely to transmit, that's good for everyone, whether or not it matters much to me in isolation. > On top of that, they managed to convince many US citizens that vaccines prevented transmission as part of their efforts to force vaccines on everyone. They do tho. Maybe not 100%, but to a degree they certainly do. > Bonus points are awarded for obesity being a major risk factor that we’ve done 0 to address post Covid despite the absolutely massive benefits we’d see from it - Id wager far outstripping masking or vaccinating. Externalities for thee but not for me, I guess. Not even sure what you're saying here.
- rtkwe 4y ago
  That's what always struck me. Sure the majority are old but they're still dying from COVID not from something else, also there's a significant number that aren't old and if we do nothing because the most at risk portion are already old we're going to lose a lot that aren't. We spend massive amounts of money keeping the elderly alive every day because we recognize that time is important and precious for these people and their families so we don't just dump them at 85 because "well you've outlived most of your cohort already anyways".
- rajin444 4y ago
  > Did they ignore them, or were they just not devaluing the lives of the sick and elderly? Not devaluing the lives of the elderly is implicitly devaluing the lives of the not elderly. This is a trade off that was given almost no consideration in the greater (US) discussion. > They do tho. Maybe not 100%, but to a degree they certainly do. The degree is extremely important here. Without a certain level of transmission prevented this benefit becomes nonexistent. See grandpa enough times and he’ll catch it. That you don’t know the degree but still felt safe seeing him is very concerning and you were likely mislead. > Not even sure what you're saying here. Choosing to focus on masks and vaccines while ignoring obesity removes are principled arguments for the former. The latter has benefits both against future pandemics of all kinds as well as broad public health benefits. Thus, anyone not raising hell about how fat America is while advocating for forced vaccination and mask wearing is playing politics and not really interested in public health outcomes. Like you, people claimed forced vaccinations were justified by externalities - but the same logic was not applied to forced weight loss.
  - moistly 4y ago
    As if forcing weight loss could have happened fast enough to be useful.
    - rajin444 4y ago
      The benefits apply to more than just Covid and if maintained for the rest of a persons life. It’s a higher up front linear cost with an exponentially higher payout.

BobbyJo 4y ago

> Likewise, certain US groups who pointed to total deaths not only ignored comorbidities but also that the average age of death for a Covid victim is past the average age of life expectancy. Did they ignore them, or were they just not devaluing the lives of the sick and elderly? If 10,000,000 people are dead that would otherwise be living, standing up and saying "but they were old or fat!" has a kind of asshole sting to it, no? > They then and still are trying to push vaccines on cohorts that absolutely do not need them (see numerous EU countries who are not doing this). Vaccines aren't just for the people that get them. They are for the people around them as well. I'm a perfectly healthy 35 year old, but I visit my 90 year old grandfather often, and live in a community with many elderly. If the vaccine makes me less likely to transmit, that's good for everyone, whether or not it matters much to me in isolation. > On top of that, they managed to convince many US citizens that vaccines prevented transmission as part of their efforts to force vaccines on everyone. They do tho. Maybe not 100%, but to a degree they certainly do. > Bonus points are awarded for obesity being a major risk factor that we’ve done 0 to address post Covid despite the absolutely massive benefits we’d see from it - Id wager far outstripping masking or vaccinating. Externalities for thee but not for me, I guess. Not even sure what you're saying here.

rtkwe 4y ago
That's what always struck me. Sure the majority are old but they're still dying from COVID not from something else, also there's a significant number that aren't old and if we do nothing because the most at risk portion are already old we're going to lose a lot that aren't. We spend massive amounts of money keeping the elderly alive every day because we recognize that time is important and precious for these people and their families so we don't just dump them at 85 because "well you've outlived most of your cohort already anyways".
rajin444 4y ago
> Did they ignore them, or were they just not devaluing the lives of the sick and elderly? Not devaluing the lives of the elderly is implicitly devaluing the lives of the not elderly. This is a trade off that was given almost no consideration in the greater (US) discussion. > They do tho. Maybe not 100%, but to a degree they certainly do. The degree is extremely important here. Without a certain level of transmission prevented this benefit becomes nonexistent. See grandpa enough times and he’ll catch it. That you don’t know the degree but still felt safe seeing him is very concerning and you were likely mislead. > Not even sure what you're saying here. Choosing to focus on masks and vaccines while ignoring obesity removes are principled arguments for the former. The latter has benefits both against future pandemics of all kinds as well as broad public health benefits. Thus, anyone not raising hell about how fat America is while advocating for forced vaccination and mask wearing is playing politics and not really interested in public health outcomes. Like you, people claimed forced vaccinations were justified by externalities - but the same logic was not applied to forced weight loss.
- moistly 4y ago
  As if forcing weight loss could have happened fast enough to be useful.
  - rajin444 4y ago
    The benefits apply to more than just Covid and if maintained for the rest of a persons life. It’s a higher up front linear cost with an exponentially higher payout.