4 ms·

That complexity was pretty ruthlessly exploited here in the US by groups that wanted to downplay the issue and end mitigation efforts. Endless takes on "well ac

by rtkwe 4y ago

That complexity was pretty ruthlessly exploited here in the US by groups that wanted to downplay the issue and end mitigation efforts. Endless takes on "well actually they didn't die of COVID they already had $co-morbidity-x or $co-morbidity-y and that's what REALLY killed them".

bvhvhfcgxfdf 4y ago
- dustedcodes 4y ago
  Unbearably hard if you ask me. I don't want to socially distance myself from my parents, sister and close friends and it hurts in my heart to see them suffer alone at home and everyone getting visibly depressed over an issue that doesn't affect them directly. I'm all up for keeping others safe, but if it means I have to compromise the mental and physical health of my own family then I couldn't care less about the health of others. Family comes first, no matter what. If my mother who is alone doesn't have any co-morbidities and is in good health (which she is) then why make her unwell? No way.
  - Retric 4y ago
    That’s not how social distancing was supposed to work. The goal was to minimize the spread of disease not cause mental issues. A large party with 100 people is vastly different than a 1v1 meetings. What I think people missed is spending several days with a friend or family member is basically an identical risk as visiting for an afternoon. People could have spent the pandemic couchsurfing as long as the number of contacts over a week was minimized it wasn’t an issue.
- AzzieElbab 4y ago
  Unless you are pointing finger at libertarians, there are plenty of examples of politicians on both sides acting equally irresponsible
  - Retric 4y ago
    So? What’s wrong with complaining about people on both sides of a political divide? “Evil” may not be eventually distributed, but there is plenty to go around.
moduspol 4y ago
The point is valid. The risks of COVID-19 to people who did not have serious co-morbidities was continuously overstated. This led to measurable misunderstandings among normal people as to the actual risk. https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/03/24/americans-misinformed-about-covid-hospitalization/ https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/03/24/americans-misinf...
- nicoburns 4y ago
  > This led to measurable misunderstandings among normal people as to the actual risk. You say "normal people" as if not having co-morbidities is more common. But large swathes of the population are old, obese, have asthma or some other co-morbidity.
  - moduspol 4y ago
    Apparently despite those large swaths, the actual rate of hospitalization (at least as of September of 2021) is dramatically lower than most people expect. Why do you think that is?
- belltaco 4y ago
  > 71.6% of adults aged 20 and over are overweight, including obesity. Nearly 40% of American adults aged 20 and over are obese.
  - moduspol 4y ago
    You're making my point. The data is from the US. Somehow, despite high rates of that specific comorbidity, the data shows Americans are hospitalized at dramatically lower rates than Americans estimate. The post I replied to said: > That complexity was pretty ruthlessly exploited here in the US by groups that wanted to downplay the issue [...] Apparently it was not exploited too ruthlessly if surveys show people were still grossly overestimating COVID-19 severity in the population. Does this result in better COVID-19 policies being made? Who is responsible for this disconnect between reality and what is perceived? How can we fix it? Or does it even need fixing? Perhaps we'd save more lives if everyone were convinced half of COVID-19 cases were fatal.
phkahler 4y ago
- drewcon 4y ago
  No.
- dolinsky 4y ago
  This is just patently false. Unless they were lying on the ground because they were exhausted from Covid and the bus ran them over, Covid would not appear on a death certificate as a co-morbidity. https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/10/fact-check-cdc-does-not-count-everyone-who-dies-with-covid-19-as-covid-death.html https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/10/fact-check-cdc-do... https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-it-s-complicated https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-c...
  - arcanemachiner 4y ago
    It was a motorcycle accident, and it was later removed from the list: https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questi...
- shlant 4y ago
  wow people are still mindlessly parroting these talking points this far into it. 1. If there were even people who's deaths were grossly misattributed to covid (big if) they were an incredibly, insignificantly rare occurrence. Feel free to provide evidence otherwise. 2. Yes, hospitals get paid for covid deaths - as with EVERY OTHER KIND OF DEATH AND TREATMENT. This is how MEDICARE WORKS. your comment is so common that both talking points are addressed in one article: https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-do-hospitals-get-money-for-covid-19-deaths https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-... Stop.
- belltaco 4y ago
  If that happened, those were more than outweighed by deaths in rural places and others where it wasn't registered as covid deaths. So if anything it's an undercount. Otherwise why would there suddenly be so many excess deaths during the pandemic beyond the ones labeled as due to covid? > In May 2021, following an analysis by the IHME that the true count of fatalities due to COVID-19 in United States was above 900,000, Anthony Fauci said that he had "no doubt" there was undercounting of COVID-19 deaths.[3] A study published in The Lancet in September 2020 also pointed to significant undercounting.[54][55] Undercounting has been reported from Virginia[56] and California.[57] A 2021 scandal involving New York authorities during the administration of Gov. Andrew Cuomo involved undercounting or an alleged cover-up of COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes in 2020.[58][ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercounting_of_COVID-19_pandemic_deaths_by_country#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercounting_of_COVID-19_pand...
rajin444 4y ago
Likewise, certain US groups who pointed to total deaths not only ignored comorbidities but also that the average age of death for a Covid victim is past the average age of life expectancy. They then and still are trying to push vaccines on cohorts that absolutely do not need them (see numerous EU countries who are not doing this). On top of that, they managed to convince many US citizens that vaccines prevented transmission as part of their efforts to force vaccines on everyone. Go check some past HN threads for a wild ride! Bonus points are awarded for obesity being a major risk factor that we’ve done 0 to address post Covid despite the absolutely massive benefits we’d see from it - Id wager far outstripping masking or vaccinating. Externalities for thee but not for me, I guess.
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  > Likewise, certain US groups who pointed to total deaths not only ignored comorbidities but also that the average age of death for a Covid victim is past the average age of life expectancy. Did they ignore them, or were they just not devaluing the lives of the sick and elderly? If 10,000,000 people are dead that would otherwise be living, standing up and saying "but they were old or fat!" has a kind of asshole sting to it, no? > They then and still are trying to push vaccines on cohorts that absolutely do not need them (see numerous EU countries who are not doing this). Vaccines aren't just for the people that get them. They are for the people around them as well. I'm a perfectly healthy 35 year old, but I visit my 90 year old grandfather often, and live in a community with many elderly. If the vaccine makes me less likely to transmit, that's good for everyone, whether or not it matters much to me in isolation. > On top of that, they managed to convince many US citizens that vaccines prevented transmission as part of their efforts to force vaccines on everyone. They do tho. Maybe not 100%, but to a degree they certainly do. > Bonus points are awarded for obesity being a major risk factor that we’ve done 0 to address post Covid despite the absolutely massive benefits we’d see from it - Id wager far outstripping masking or vaccinating. Externalities for thee but not for me, I guess. Not even sure what you're saying here.
  - rtkwe 4y ago
    That's what always struck me. Sure the majority are old but they're still dying from COVID not from something else, also there's a significant number that aren't old and if we do nothing because the most at risk portion are already old we're going to lose a lot that aren't. We spend massive amounts of money keeping the elderly alive every day because we recognize that time is important and precious for these people and their families so we don't just dump them at 85 because "well you've outlived most of your cohort already anyways".

by rtkwe 4y ago

bvhvhfcgxfdf 4y ago

dustedcodes 4y ago
Unbearably hard if you ask me. I don't want to socially distance myself from my parents, sister and close friends and it hurts in my heart to see them suffer alone at home and everyone getting visibly depressed over an issue that doesn't affect them directly. I'm all up for keeping others safe, but if it means I have to compromise the mental and physical health of my own family then I couldn't care less about the health of others. Family comes first, no matter what. If my mother who is alone doesn't have any co-morbidities and is in good health (which she is) then why make her unwell? No way.
- Retric 4y ago
  That’s not how social distancing was supposed to work. The goal was to minimize the spread of disease not cause mental issues. A large party with 100 people is vastly different than a 1v1 meetings. What I think people missed is spending several days with a friend or family member is basically an identical risk as visiting for an afternoon. People could have spent the pandemic couchsurfing as long as the number of contacts over a week was minimized it wasn’t an issue.
AzzieElbab 4y ago
Unless you are pointing finger at libertarians, there are plenty of examples of politicians on both sides acting equally irresponsible
- Retric 4y ago
  So? What’s wrong with complaining about people on both sides of a political divide? “Evil” may not be eventually distributed, but there is plenty to go around.

moduspol 4y ago

The point is valid. The risks of COVID-19 to people who did not have serious co-morbidities was continuously overstated. This led to measurable misunderstandings among normal people as to the actual risk. https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/03/24/americans-misinformed-about-covid-hospitalization/ https://catalyst.independent.org/2021/03/24/americans-misinf...

nicoburns 4y ago
> This led to measurable misunderstandings among normal people as to the actual risk. You say "normal people" as if not having co-morbidities is more common. But large swathes of the population are old, obese, have asthma or some other co-morbidity.
- moduspol 4y ago
  Apparently despite those large swaths, the actual rate of hospitalization (at least as of September of 2021) is dramatically lower than most people expect. Why do you think that is?
belltaco 4y ago
> 71.6% of adults aged 20 and over are overweight, including obesity. Nearly 40% of American adults aged 20 and over are obese.
- moduspol 4y ago
  You're making my point. The data is from the US. Somehow, despite high rates of that specific comorbidity, the data shows Americans are hospitalized at dramatically lower rates than Americans estimate. The post I replied to said: > That complexity was pretty ruthlessly exploited here in the US by groups that wanted to downplay the issue [...] Apparently it was not exploited too ruthlessly if surveys show people were still grossly overestimating COVID-19 severity in the population. Does this result in better COVID-19 policies being made? Who is responsible for this disconnect between reality and what is perceived? How can we fix it? Or does it even need fixing? Perhaps we'd save more lives if everyone were convinced half of COVID-19 cases were fatal.

phkahler 4y ago

drewcon 4y ago
No.
dolinsky 4y ago
This is just patently false. Unless they were lying on the ground because they were exhausted from Covid and the bus ran them over, Covid would not appear on a death certificate as a co-morbidity. https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/10/fact-check-cdc-does-not-count-everyone-who-dies-with-covid-19-as-covid-death.html https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/10/fact-check-cdc-do... https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-it-s-complicated https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-are-covid-19-deaths-c...
- arcanemachiner 4y ago
  It was a motorcycle accident, and it was later removed from the list: https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questi...
shlant 4y ago
wow people are still mindlessly parroting these talking points this far into it. 1. If there were even people who's deaths were grossly misattributed to covid (big if) they were an incredibly, insignificantly rare occurrence. Feel free to provide evidence otherwise. 2. Yes, hospitals get paid for covid deaths - as with EVERY OTHER KIND OF DEATH AND TREATMENT. This is how MEDICARE WORKS. your comment is so common that both talking points are addressed in one article: https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-how-are-covid-19-deaths-counted-do-hospitals-get-money-for-covid-19-deaths https://fox11online.com/news/fox-11-investigates/fact-check-... Stop.
belltaco 4y ago
If that happened, those were more than outweighed by deaths in rural places and others where it wasn't registered as covid deaths. So if anything it's an undercount. Otherwise why would there suddenly be so many excess deaths during the pandemic beyond the ones labeled as due to covid? > In May 2021, following an analysis by the IHME that the true count of fatalities due to COVID-19 in United States was above 900,000, Anthony Fauci said that he had "no doubt" there was undercounting of COVID-19 deaths.[3] A study published in The Lancet in September 2020 also pointed to significant undercounting.[54][55] Undercounting has been reported from Virginia[56] and California.[57] A 2021 scandal involving New York authorities during the administration of Gov. Andrew Cuomo involved undercounting or an alleged cover-up of COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes in 2020.[58][ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercounting_of_COVID-19_pandemic_deaths_by_country#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undercounting_of_COVID-19_pand...

rajin444 4y ago

Likewise, certain US groups who pointed to total deaths not only ignored comorbidities but also that the average age of death for a Covid victim is past the average age of life expectancy. They then and still are trying to push vaccines on cohorts that absolutely do not need them (see numerous EU countries who are not doing this). On top of that, they managed to convince many US citizens that vaccines prevented transmission as part of their efforts to force vaccines on everyone. Go check some past HN threads for a wild ride! Bonus points are awarded for obesity being a major risk factor that we’ve done 0 to address post Covid despite the absolutely massive benefits we’d see from it - Id wager far outstripping masking or vaccinating. Externalities for thee but not for me, I guess.

BobbyJo 4y ago
> Likewise, certain US groups who pointed to total deaths not only ignored comorbidities but also that the average age of death for a Covid victim is past the average age of life expectancy. Did they ignore them, or were they just not devaluing the lives of the sick and elderly? If 10,000,000 people are dead that would otherwise be living, standing up and saying "but they were old or fat!" has a kind of asshole sting to it, no? > They then and still are trying to push vaccines on cohorts that absolutely do not need them (see numerous EU countries who are not doing this). Vaccines aren't just for the people that get them. They are for the people around them as well. I'm a perfectly healthy 35 year old, but I visit my 90 year old grandfather often, and live in a community with many elderly. If the vaccine makes me less likely to transmit, that's good for everyone, whether or not it matters much to me in isolation. > On top of that, they managed to convince many US citizens that vaccines prevented transmission as part of their efforts to force vaccines on everyone. They do tho. Maybe not 100%, but to a degree they certainly do. > Bonus points are awarded for obesity being a major risk factor that we’ve done 0 to address post Covid despite the absolutely massive benefits we’d see from it - Id wager far outstripping masking or vaccinating. Externalities for thee but not for me, I guess. Not even sure what you're saying here.
- rtkwe 4y ago
  That's what always struck me. Sure the majority are old but they're still dying from COVID not from something else, also there's a significant number that aren't old and if we do nothing because the most at risk portion are already old we're going to lose a lot that aren't. We spend massive amounts of money keeping the elderly alive every day because we recognize that time is important and precious for these people and their families so we don't just dump them at 85 because "well you've outlived most of your cohort already anyways".