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I'm sorry but I hate this take so much and I hate it even more that it's so accepted. Blaming men (or collective manhood called "the patriarchy") for their own
by MrPotatoLover 4y ago
I'm sorry but I hate this take so much and I hate it even more that it's so accepted. Blaming men (or collective manhood called "the patriarchy") for their own suicide rates would be considered gaslighting and victim shaming in any other context but when it comes to men you can just casually drop it and people will consider it a sophisticated take on male suicide rates.
I don't even fully disagree with you – it is a problem that men are less likely to open up, are less likely to have a close friend, etc. But just saying "patriarchy" and "cultural norms" is a lazy cop out. You don't look at something that mostly affects women such as anorexia, say "well it's cultural norms, women should work on that" and shrug it off.
It's not an original take but I strongly believe that there's a biological basis to things that men do that both makes them kill themselves at higher rates but also makes them work the worst jobs like oil drill workers or industrial divers. But way too many times the toxic aspects of masculinity are highlighted (often for good reasons) while the positive aspects are ignored and belittled. Some good, high-level evidence for this is that even in super gender egalitarian cultures such as Sweden men still kill themselves at around three times the rate than women.
Instead of waxing about "the patriarchy" and "cultural norms" how about doing some research and looking into systemic issues?
Disclaimer: This mostly makes me so angry because I was personally affected. I spent years with suicidal ideation and being close a few times because I was highly depressed due to growing up with a borderline mother and then having a longterm borderline partner. When I finally found the energy to look for therapy I found that most therapists are female and it's really hard to find a male therapist (systemic issue right here). I had the enormous luck to find one who did a masculinity-positive therapist - and please don't think Jordan Peterson here – and I still think that this man saved my life. I really don't want to imagine what would have happened if I had found a therapist talking about the patriarchy – because it really is just another way of saying "man up". BTW: I ultimately left my abusive, borderline girlfriend and she never had to feel any social repercussions for her behaviour. Is that also "the patriarchy"? If yes, then the term is completely meaningless. Do you think showing vulnerability would have helped me in that situation? I don't think so, it actually just made her angrier.
Long story short: Before you drop this take next time, please do some more research into what men can suffer from and think about whether it's all just the patriarchy. Thanks for listening.
- acdha 4y agoHey, I’m sorry that you had to deal with what sounds like a rough situation. My position isn’t that patriarchy explains everything – I blame economics more, for example – but rather that it means that a fair number of us do not have good tools for dealing with our feelings and we often have social pressure compounding problems. For example, you mentioned going to therapy — my father never got any form of treatment for his manic depression because he had been raised to think of that as weak and effeminate, and real men just needed to power through. His life could have gone so much better if he’d ever found a stable balance but it wasn’t a tool many men of his generation thought they could use. Even when I was growing up in suburban California in the 80s and 90s therapy was the subject of jokes & stigma, often linked to the homophobia which a lot of boys & men spent time actively reinforcing. Again, I’m not claiming that every problem is caused by patriarchy any more than every car accident was caused by the lack of antilock brakes - only that it left a lot of us vulnerable and less prepared for downsides in life, and that it’s unevenly given (e.g. I’ve heard more “man up” messaging from other men whose lives had generally gone well than those who had some experience with hard problems). If I had a magic wand, the thing I’d want would be for anyone to feel it’s normal to get help just like nobody blinks about seeing a doctor when you break your arm.