4 ms·

I think it is about having an ADDITIONAL option to access things not about taking the "Lock me down, I don't care"-status away.

mleo 4y ago
The unforeseen consequences of the former will break the latter. Schools, Test Proctoring companies, Game companies will "force" users to install the ADDITIONAL option to run whatever is required and then simply extend their reach beyond what is appropriate.
- onion2k 4y ago
  I find the "Apple's engineers aren't capable of doing this in a safe way" argument a bit hollow, because the option basically already exists in iOS. All people want is the option to jailbreak iOS in an official way rather than some sketchy hack. As for services that 'demand' you install something, the option exists on Android and no one demands people install things on their Android devices. Why would iOS be different?
  - vineyardmike 4y ago
    > As for services that 'demand' you install something, the option exists on Android and no one demands people install things on their Android devices. Why would iOS be different? https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/mobile/android https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/mobile/android 1. It is used now. 2. Google is a lot less aggressive than apple (see meta vs ATT).
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      I don't see where Epic is forcing anyone to do anything.
      - vineyardmike 4y ago
        If you want to play Fortnite - one of the most popular games for a generation of people- you can’t use the play store. You need to side load or use a supported store. Sure it’s not “forced” like you go to jail or your phone doesn’t work, but you can’t use the way 99% of people will get their games.
    - onion2k 4y ago
      Yes, Epic has an app store on Android. So does Amazon. So do a few others. If anything that just proves the point that third party app integrations can work in a mobile OS without the world ending.
- amadvance 4y ago
  It's anecdotal, but I don't see this happening in the Android ecosystem.
shuckles 4y ago
It is odd to me that there are people who eagerly agree that Apple can coerce users into configurations they don't want for lack of better options yet also believe that no other company could make them do that w.r.t. being forced to download alternative app stores, spyware, bloatware, and more. Do you really think the average user won't end up being compelled to download garbage software if it's possible?
- dzikimarian 4y ago
  On Android, which globally is bigger than iOS, it didn't happen. It's exactly the discussed setup - you can install alternative store, there's just a bit of friction to do that.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    It already happened on iOS when both Google and Facebook convinced consumers to install what were suppose to be internal enterprise certificates to spy on you.
  - shuckles 4y ago
    This is totally false. When I used Android, finding a phone maker and carrier who sold “pure” or “stock” Android without pre-installed garbage was the first step to buying a phone!
    - dzikimarian 4y ago
      >without pre-installed garbage Like Apple Music? Each phone vendor including Apple does this to some extent. On Android you at least have some options (I had a few of them all were very close to stock), and usually you can disable these apps if there are any.
      - shuckles 4y ago
        Comparing the system Music app which has existed since iOS 1.0 with an optional music streaming service that can be disabled as “equivalently bad” as carrier bloatware pretty much undermines your point entirely.

mleo 4y ago

The unforeseen consequences of the former will break the latter. Schools, Test Proctoring companies, Game companies will "force" users to install the ADDITIONAL option to run whatever is required and then simply extend their reach beyond what is appropriate.

onion2k 4y ago
I find the "Apple's engineers aren't capable of doing this in a safe way" argument a bit hollow, because the option basically already exists in iOS. All people want is the option to jailbreak iOS in an official way rather than some sketchy hack. As for services that 'demand' you install something, the option exists on Android and no one demands people install things on their Android devices. Why would iOS be different?
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  > As for services that 'demand' you install something, the option exists on Android and no one demands people install things on their Android devices. Why would iOS be different? https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/mobile/android https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/mobile/android 1. It is used now. 2. Google is a lot less aggressive than apple (see meta vs ATT).
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    I don't see where Epic is forcing anyone to do anything.
    - vineyardmike 4y ago
      If you want to play Fortnite - one of the most popular games for a generation of people- you can’t use the play store. You need to side load or use a supported store. Sure it’s not “forced” like you go to jail or your phone doesn’t work, but you can’t use the way 99% of people will get their games.
  - onion2k 4y ago
    Yes, Epic has an app store on Android. So does Amazon. So do a few others. If anything that just proves the point that third party app integrations can work in a mobile OS without the world ending.
amadvance 4y ago
It's anecdotal, but I don't see this happening in the Android ecosystem.

shuckles 4y ago

It is odd to me that there are people who eagerly agree that Apple can coerce users into configurations they don't want for lack of better options yet also believe that no other company could make them do that w.r.t. being forced to download alternative app stores, spyware, bloatware, and more. Do you really think the average user won't end up being compelled to download garbage software if it's possible?

dzikimarian 4y ago
On Android, which globally is bigger than iOS, it didn't happen. It's exactly the discussed setup - you can install alternative store, there's just a bit of friction to do that.
- scarface74 4y ago
  It already happened on iOS when both Google and Facebook convinced consumers to install what were suppose to be internal enterprise certificates to spy on you.
- shuckles 4y ago
  This is totally false. When I used Android, finding a phone maker and carrier who sold “pure” or “stock” Android without pre-installed garbage was the first step to buying a phone!
  - dzikimarian 4y ago
    >without pre-installed garbage Like Apple Music? Each phone vendor including Apple does this to some extent. On Android you at least have some options (I had a few of them all were very close to stock), and usually you can disable these apps if there are any.
    - shuckles 4y ago
      Comparing the system Music app which has existed since iOS 1.0 with an optional music streaming service that can be disabled as “equivalently bad” as carrier bloatware pretty much undermines your point entirely.