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This is good. Chrome is the new IE. we are repeating history with Google now controlling the web. Except no one seems to care cos it’s not Microsoft.

leeoniya 4y ago
i submit bug reports to Chromium all the time and - wait for it - they actually get addressed! check this one i reported back in March: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1305342 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=130534... triaged & root-caused quickly, then sat around for a while until what looks like an [MS Edge!] dev picked it up and fixed it 2 days ago (merged 4 hours ago). IE this is not. if anything is like IE(6), it's Safari and iOS Safari, where standardized APIs go unimplemented and bugs go unfixed for years with radio silence. and when bugs do get fixed, it requires a full OS update, just like IE.
wvenable 4y ago
No, Safari is the new IE. There are better browsers but due to it's market share (forced by Apple) developers are forced to limit themselves to it's feature set. And the reasons are the same as well: Microsoft saw the browser as competition to their OS and Apple sees it the same way. So they both limited development of their browser to keep their platform supremacy. The situation is not the same with Google -- the web is their platform. This has it's own issues but it's not history repeating itself.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  People used to build websites for IE. Now people build websites for chrome. Firefox is a better browser but people are stuck with chrome cos everything works in chrome. Google controls chromium. Its absolutely history repeating when Google adds is own standards. People whine about iOS Safari but the reality is it works really well and most of the complaints are “it works in chrome but not safari and I don’t want to spend any amount of time looking at it so I won’t support it”
  - zarzavat 4y ago
    Two different points in IE’s history. Chrome is like IE in the IE5 era when it was totally dominant and the best browser around. Safari is like IE in the IE7-8 era when it was the worst browser and actively holding back everything else.
    - FPGAhacker 4y ago
      That's a load of crap. I use safari for all my browsing with the one exception of using Firefox for read.amazon.com. It's perfectly fine. I'm never working on my computer an thinking, "damnit safari, why can't you just be like chrome/firefox." That never happens. I vastly prefer safari to chrome or Firefox. At work I'll use chrome because some of our web apps only support chrome for whatever reason. But they're garbage IBM puts out, not something you'd use by choice.
      - wvenable 4y ago
        Developers make sure their sites work in Safari. Just like developers made sure that their sites still worked in IE11 for almost a decade. Because it works for you is exactly why it's holding back development.
        philliphaydon 4y ago
        If developers made sure their sites worked in Safari we wouldn't have submissions to HN for sites that only work in Chrome with "oh yeah it doesn't work in Firefox or Safari because I didn't test it". The number of developers who do their work on Chrome and call it a job done and never test in another browser, far outweight the number of developers who do test cross-browser. The reason people tested in IE11 and less was because they were forced to. They liked Chrome but the users were using the shitty browsers, and older OS didn't yet support Edge. Now the majority use Chrome and the devs no longer care. We need more competition in the browser space, Safari and Firefox provide that. And neither are holding web development back. Developers are.

leeoniya 4y ago

i submit bug reports to Chromium all the time and - wait for it - they actually get addressed! check this one i reported back in March: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1305342 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=130534... triaged & root-caused quickly, then sat around for a while until what looks like an [MS Edge!] dev picked it up and fixed it 2 days ago (merged 4 hours ago). IE this is not. if anything is like IE(6), it's Safari and iOS Safari, where standardized APIs go unimplemented and bugs go unfixed for years with radio silence. and when bugs do get fixed, it requires a full OS update, just like IE.

wvenable 4y ago

No, Safari is the new IE. There are better browsers but due to it's market share (forced by Apple) developers are forced to limit themselves to it's feature set. And the reasons are the same as well: Microsoft saw the browser as competition to their OS and Apple sees it the same way. So they both limited development of their browser to keep their platform supremacy. The situation is not the same with Google -- the web is their platform. This has it's own issues but it's not history repeating itself.

philliphaydon 4y ago
People used to build websites for IE. Now people build websites for chrome. Firefox is a better browser but people are stuck with chrome cos everything works in chrome. Google controls chromium. Its absolutely history repeating when Google adds is own standards. People whine about iOS Safari but the reality is it works really well and most of the complaints are “it works in chrome but not safari and I don’t want to spend any amount of time looking at it so I won’t support it”
- zarzavat 4y ago
  Two different points in IE’s history. Chrome is like IE in the IE5 era when it was totally dominant and the best browser around. Safari is like IE in the IE7-8 era when it was the worst browser and actively holding back everything else.
  - FPGAhacker 4y ago
    That's a load of crap. I use safari for all my browsing with the one exception of using Firefox for read.amazon.com. It's perfectly fine. I'm never working on my computer an thinking, "damnit safari, why can't you just be like chrome/firefox." That never happens. I vastly prefer safari to chrome or Firefox. At work I'll use chrome because some of our web apps only support chrome for whatever reason. But they're garbage IBM puts out, not something you'd use by choice.
    - wvenable 4y ago
      Developers make sure their sites work in Safari. Just like developers made sure that their sites still worked in IE11 for almost a decade. Because it works for you is exactly why it's holding back development.
      - philliphaydon 4y ago
        If developers made sure their sites worked in Safari we wouldn't have submissions to HN for sites that only work in Chrome with "oh yeah it doesn't work in Firefox or Safari because I didn't test it". The number of developers who do their work on Chrome and call it a job done and never test in another browser, far outweight the number of developers who do test cross-browser. The reason people tested in IE11 and less was because they were forced to. They liked Chrome but the users were using the shitty browsers, and older OS didn't yet support Edge. Now the majority use Chrome and the devs no longer care. We need more competition in the browser space, Safari and Firefox provide that. And neither are holding web development back. Developers are.