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Am I reading this right? They basically are trying to measure sleep quality and whether or not they have depression based on some random questions? Sleep qualit

• aidenn0 4y ago
  I'm with you on that, but if 10 years from now, her emotional health is fine and she doesn't lose sleep over it, then long-term the damage to her may have been minimal? I think the idea is that poor mental health outcomes would be a proxy for a large fraction of the wide range of issues phones could cause.
  • clolege 4y ago
    It feels like it's the reactions of adults that cause most of the trauma in some of these situations. It would be a different story if she got blackmailed or something, but it seems like she was just exploring her sexuality. That's healthy, right? What are teenagers supposed to do during a pandemic?
    • willcipriano 4y ago
      > What are teenagers supposed to do during a pandemic? They are bored so go ahead and send pictures to a pedophile? What?
      • frognumber 4y ago
        I do fundamentally agree with the logic -- we should be looking at harm. If I had send nude picks as a kid, and nothing came of it, it's probably not an issue. However: - With growing compromises, anything sent on the internet today is likely to be found and linked back someday. - We have no idea what risks will happen in 20 years. - Even today, it can lead to stalky / groomy / etc. things Those sorts of rare events won't be captured well in metrics. Usually, it's not that 100% of people are harmed, but that 1% suffers extreme harm. So as much as I agree with the logic, I disagree with the conclusion. (you're the other way around: your conclusion is right, but your logic is missing, and replaced by outrage)
        • P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
          while I understand your point, I have to believe that anyone hosting and showing naked underage pictures is very quickly going to decide not to so that particular threat really holds little water.
      • clolege 4y ago
        I meant it as an honest, open-ended question. Would you prefer them to just not explore their sexuality? Or explore it online with people they know, like their classmates?
        • prepend 4y ago
          There’s ways to explore sexuality besides sending nudes to strangers and being tricked into transactional relationships that exploit their sexuality. Everyone matures at different rates, but I think it’s pretty universal that no 13 year old is mature enough to consent to nude photos sent to strangers who are likely adults. Not to mention it’s criminal.
    • icytrumpet 4y ago
      What an absolutely awful take.
      • VBprogrammer 4y ago
        I mean I absolutely agree with the first point. The reaction of the adults in these circumstances almost certainly is worse than the damage caused in the first place. What this means in the grand scheme of things though I'm not sure. What is the alternative though? Trying to shelter kids from the internet with filters which are guaranteed to be either overbearing or easily bypassed? Deny them a phone which many of their peers will have (in all likelyhood the photos will just get taken on someone else's phone)? Try to treat them as intelligent young people and explain the realities.
        • clolege 4y ago
          Treating them as intelligent young people seems like the obvious answer, although those conversations are hard, especially at the young ages that kids can access adult content nowadays. The "best" solution in my mind, is probably filtering internet access until they hit puberty, then have the talk. What goes in the talk, idk (probably what catfishing is, promoting neck-down nudes only, sex-positivity, and maybe one or two other things). The sex-positivity feels like the most important part though, and what I was getting at originally. So many parents (including my own) only focus on what not to do, that kids don't know what to do. So many keep doing the same things in secret and just feel guilty about it. Is there a future where it's the norm to promote safe sex amongst teens? Or are we too much of prudes to ever touch the topic?
          • dzhiurgis 4y ago
            The paradox is that kids are sexually active from around 13, yet it's almost illegal for them to be so
  • hosh 4y ago
    The doxxing, deep fakes, and generative AI will come later in life.
    • aidenn0 4y ago
      That's true; any damage out further than the length of the study will not be quantified.
  • prepend 4y ago
    > but if 10 years from now, her emotional health is fine and she doesn't lose sleep over it, then long-term the damage to her may have been minimal? That’s a huge if and not substantiated by what they measured in this study. It’s like saying “so what if they were sexually assaulted, she’s fine now. The harm a pre-teen suffers from sending nudes to internet strangers is likely substantial trauma for the rest of their life.
    • scotty79 4y ago
      > The harm a pre-teen suffers from sending nudes to internet strangers is likely substantial trauma for the rest of their life. Was that ever researched? Or is it something that adults just find reasonable? From my experience people are fairly good as adults, with dealing with memories of their own youth voluntary stupidity especially if it didn't result in damage to their bodies or didn't alter their life in significant manner. This by no way excuses the behavior of a person that misled a kid into something like that, but I think one can abhor somebody doing something that has potential horrible consequences while at the same time observing that damage they managed to inflict in that case was actually minimal.
      • soupfordummies 4y ago
        But do you have a lot of experience with people that were groomed into cyber sex abuse? There probably isn’t a lot of research wrt OP’s example since it’s such a new(ish) phenomenon.
        • scotty79 4y ago
          Of course not. But I have experience of being a kid and doing potentially life threatening and borderline criminal things because of my youthful stupidity that may have ended horribly. I was never groomed but I managed to screw up my perception of romantic relationships all by myself with little help of same aged friends as I grew up.
          • prepend 4y ago
• dvt 4y ago
  > they did nothing I know this is meant to be a bit of a swipe at the police, but I mean... what can they do? You'd have to subpoena at least 3 entities to find the creep, and then potentially have to extradite them. A guy I play video games with used to be part of the FBI's cybercrime division and he always laments how difficult it is to go after people (he works in cybersecurity now). I hope to have kids one day, and I can't imagine how difficult it is to be a parent in the age of texting, Instagram, and Tiktok.
  • bitwize 4y ago
    Wait, this is the FBI. You mean they can't just knock on the door of the NSA, say "hey, use your XKEYSCORE to trace this creep", then parallel-construct an evidence chain with fictional provenance so they can nail him in court so hard all his lawyers can do is recommend taking a plea bargain? What are we paying those guys for, anyway? What are secret police even for, if not prosecuting people you can't legally gather evidence against?
    • throwup 4y ago
      The FBI would rather more children get hurt than risk the public learning any more details of their spying programs. https://www.theregister.com/2017/01/06/fbi_lets_people_off_to_keep_methods_secret/ https://www.theregister.com/2017/01/06/fbi_lets_people_off_t...
    • justsomehnguy 4y ago
      > What are secret police even for Ask FSB and it's former head for that.
    • kneebonian 4y ago
      Well they would if it was the daughter of someone in power. But right now they are too busy trying to convince mentally ill people to commit terrorist acts so they can stop them.
    • throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
      to serve and protect the regime
• irjustin 4y ago
  The situation you describe is rightfully terrible, but the conclusion you seem to be pointing at is, no one should have a phone until they're 18? or similar? I don't think that's what you actually mean to say, so when we're talking about larger the group, this specific situation won't lead you to the same conclusion. > Sleep quality and depression are no where near my concerns. There aren't many ways to study things at scale. This is 250 participants tracked over 5 years. That alone is hard enough. In the end, I think that you're agreeing with the study - parents involvement and parenting matter.
• Spivak 4y ago
  I mean if you're young enough to have done something stupid like this when given unsupervised access to the internet you know that there's nothing you can do to prevent it except try to impart some good internet hygiene that they probably won't listen to anyway because they're 13 and humans are fantastically bad at learning from other people's mistakes -- "nice cautionary tale but this is different." Sheltering doesn't work because it just postpones the naivete; it's called experience because you have to experience it. Plus it just makes your kids hate you, not trust your advice, and worse not come to you for help. Your job as a parent isn't to devise some system to make it impossible for your kids to do stupid things, yes even serious ones like this, your job is to try as best you can to help them understand and choose to not do stupid things and, when they do and need an adult, help them deal with the consequences. I mean if anything what I did at that age was worse, I knew the guys I was talking to were way older and still exchanged spicy photos. Yeah yeah something something daddy issues but it's true. At that age we crave male attention and validation, especially from older men, like a dried out sponge and when we don't get it or enough from dad we find it other places and I'm so sure that's what happened here. I didn't know there was anything wrong with the photos I was sending, I was just following the attention and praise and knew they liked them.
  • hosh 4y ago
    Experience works in a learning process if, and only if, there is awareness of consequences, and the developing brain is capable of linking actions with consequences. If there is a long feedback cycle, it is doubtful an adolescent is going to put much thought into it — or care. Free range parenting, by the way, don’t necessarily advocate letting a child wander off with zero awareness on the part of the parent. There are often environmental rail guards invisible to the child — neighbors that know the child and the parents, for example, or in the case of Japan, a culture and social order where this is pervasive. My view is that parents curate environments, and change the possibility space in which catastrophic mistakes can be avoided. This isn’t a question of “sheltering” or “exposure”, but whether or not posting up naked under aged pictures of yourself on the internet is a catastrophic mistake.
    • Spivak 4y ago
• scotty79 4y ago
  > Sleep quality and depression are no where near my concerns. Why are they not though? After all harm is not in what was done to you but how it impacted you. And bad quality of sleep and depression are signs that you've been wrecked.
• dstein9 4y ago