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Both your links go to the same Proton article and the heart of it seems to be this: > Apple monitors your every move in the App Store and its News and Stocks a

Both your links go to the same Proton article and the heart of it seems to be this: > Apple monitors your every move in the App Store and its News and Stocks apps and then uses that data to sell ads targeting you in those same apps. To meet its growth forecasts, experts expect Apple to start selling ads in its Maps, Podcast, and Books apps, meaning it could replicate this model across more of its services. Much more of your activity could be monitored in the future. Tracking every click in the App Store/News/Stocks is not great but it is in NO WAY similar to tracking every website I view and reading every email I send.

satvikpendem 4y ago
Why do you assume Apple doesn't also track every website and email you read (especially if you use the default Apple-made apps)? After all, they make the OS, they can track whatever they want.
- majormajor 4y ago
  Nobody's reported seeing that sort of network traffic sent off of iOS devices. It's trivially easy to spot it, and it's well documented, going to Google and others across the web, though.
  - mortehu 4y ago
    On my iPhone, Safari browser history synchronization to iCloud was enabled by default.
    - musicale 4y ago
      According to Apple, Safari history and bookmarks are end-to-end encrypted and Apple cannot read them: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Is there any evidence that Apple is lying, and is actually decrypting them somehow and using them for advertising purposes, rather than for the "coherence" feature? I don't actually want browsing sessions to be unified across devices, so I do wish that it was turned off by default. (Though being able to close tabs remotely is a sort of interesting capability.) However, it doesn't seem to be actual spyware used for advertising or tracking purposes.
      - pyuser583 4y ago
        That’s not what your link says. The link says browsing history is end-to-end encrypted, but Bookmarks are not.
  - acomjean 4y ago
    Safari on iOS is auto-completing stuff as you type. The option to search with google comes up if you get far enough. And it’s not going to google first. If you type an address the “link” at the top is to Apple Maps. They seem to do a similar thing with place names. I’m not sure but one can be fairly certain they’re using the phones location to help….
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    You will have no idea what is being carried via encrypted channels to Apple's opaque backend servers.
  - manigandham 4y ago
    > " It's trivially easy to spot" Is it? How exactly are encrypted payloads to a secure, opaque and generic endpoint easy to distinguish?
    - majormajor 4y ago
      It's trivially easy to spot it going to Google/FB/whoever if you visit a page with a GA or FB or whatever pixel. That's part of the second sentence, not the first. For spotting it going to Apple you'd have to do more fancy correlation over time and such, but you can find people out there who are researching this stuff... so that's who I'm waiting for to hear more from.
- chrononaut 4y ago
  Burden of proof fallacy
piyush_soni 4y ago
People keep saying Google reads your emails (even when Google explicitly says otherwise), but have no proof, and trust Apple's words as the gospel of truth - how strange. It's almost as if it's fashionable to criticize them. This is on Gmail's homepage: "We never use your Gmail content for any ads purposes. Gmail uses industry-leading encryption for all messages you receive and send. We never use your Gmail content to personalize ads."
roody15 4y ago
Interesting.. I just saw an add in my Apple Maps yesterday and I was really confused at first. Had no idea they are considering moving in this direction and must already be testing it. On a different note I attended an apple event for IT Government and Education in Chicago. Eye opening.. Apple's "privacy" stance is all just a horse and pony show for marketing. Unbelievable how open they were about tracking everything at the event.

satvikpendem 4y ago

Why do you assume Apple doesn't also track every website and email you read (especially if you use the default Apple-made apps)? After all, they make the OS, they can track whatever they want.

majormajor 4y ago
Nobody's reported seeing that sort of network traffic sent off of iOS devices. It's trivially easy to spot it, and it's well documented, going to Google and others across the web, though.
- mortehu 4y ago
  On my iPhone, Safari browser history synchronization to iCloud was enabled by default.
  - musicale 4y ago
    According to Apple, Safari history and bookmarks are end-to-end encrypted and Apple cannot read them: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 Is there any evidence that Apple is lying, and is actually decrypting them somehow and using them for advertising purposes, rather than for the "coherence" feature? I don't actually want browsing sessions to be unified across devices, so I do wish that it was turned off by default. (Though being able to close tabs remotely is a sort of interesting capability.) However, it doesn't seem to be actual spyware used for advertising or tracking purposes.
    - pyuser583 4y ago
      That’s not what your link says. The link says browsing history is end-to-end encrypted, but Bookmarks are not.
- acomjean 4y ago
  Safari on iOS is auto-completing stuff as you type. The option to search with google comes up if you get far enough. And it’s not going to google first. If you type an address the “link” at the top is to Apple Maps. They seem to do a similar thing with place names. I’m not sure but one can be fairly certain they’re using the phones location to help….
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  You will have no idea what is being carried via encrypted channels to Apple's opaque backend servers.
- manigandham 4y ago
  > " It's trivially easy to spot" Is it? How exactly are encrypted payloads to a secure, opaque and generic endpoint easy to distinguish?
  - majormajor 4y ago
    It's trivially easy to spot it going to Google/FB/whoever if you visit a page with a GA or FB or whatever pixel. That's part of the second sentence, not the first. For spotting it going to Apple you'd have to do more fancy correlation over time and such, but you can find people out there who are researching this stuff... so that's who I'm waiting for to hear more from.
chrononaut 4y ago
Burden of proof fallacy

piyush_soni 4y ago

People keep saying Google reads your emails (even when Google explicitly says otherwise), but have no proof, and trust Apple's words as the gospel of truth - how strange. It's almost as if it's fashionable to criticize them. This is on Gmail's homepage: "We never use your Gmail content for any ads purposes. Gmail uses industry-leading encryption for all messages you receive and send. We never use your Gmail content to personalize ads."

roody15 4y ago

Interesting.. I just saw an add in my Apple Maps yesterday and I was really confused at first. Had no idea they are considering moving in this direction and must already be testing it. On a different note I attended an apple event for IT Government and Education in Chicago. Eye opening.. Apple's "privacy" stance is all just a horse and pony show for marketing. Unbelievable how open they were about tracking everything at the event.