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I have owned many Samsung android devices over the years and have always been able to install fdroid and other alternate app stores as well as "side load" appli

I have owned many Samsung android devices over the years and have always been able to install fdroid and other alternate app stores as well as "side load" applications from apk files. Is there a new thing where Samsung have removed this feature in recent (last two years or so) devices?

hparadiz 4y ago
The bootloader in on Samsung Android devices is extremely locked down to prevent rooting. Sideloading is a basic android feature. Ability to root and sideloading are two different but similar issues on the topic of freedom.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  That's sorta the status-quo. But I'd fully support any legislation that mandates open bootloaders on all devices, definitely would help save the iPad from obscurity.
  - FalconSensei 4y ago
    > help save the iPad from obscurity. wait what? It's basically the most used/desired tablet, afaik, at least in Canada/US
- GuB-42 4y ago
  My experience is that Samsung devices are quite easy to root. There is that e-fuse thing that disable some features permanently, but to my knowledge, these are mostly intended for corporate devices and you can ignore them for personal use.
  - hparadiz 4y ago
    With Galaxy phones they are extremely hostile to unsigned flashes to the device. You essentially need to exploit a zero day in the stock rom to get temporary root and then while you have temporary root you flash a new recovery. And then you gotta make sure it doesn't flash the stock recovery back in the next boot by making sure your next reboot goes into the recovery. And then you can flash your custom ROM. I skipped some steps too.
    - visarga 4y ago
      Having to jump through so many hoops is why I never bothered to root my phones. It sounds like 90% chance to brick it.
      - TeMPOraL 4y ago
        It doesn't matter anyway. Thanks to Google pushing remote attestation, all you can expect from a custom ROM is the actually important apps (like bank) no longer working.
        GuB-42 4y ago
        I think you mean hardware attestation. And yes, it is the biggest problem I have. I can do without KNOX, but it is becoming harder to do without these locked down apps (ex: bank), and workarounds are harder to get by, no matter the manufacturer. And of course forget about anything that isn't iOS or Android. I don't expect banks to support alternative OSes anytime soon. I probably won't root my next phone, not worth the hassle for a daily driver. What could be nice is if phones could run VMs, so you have your stock ROM with all your "important" apps, and a VM where you can run anything you want: hacked Android, Linux, maybe even a desktop OS. Modern phone hardware should be more than powerful enough to do that.
        hparadiz 4y ago
        The only two apps that are affected by Knox is Samsung Pay and Samsung Health. And that is only an issue if you decide to flash the stock rom back on the device. If you use custom roms they typically have a workaround to get both of those apps working with the Knox fuse tripped. The easiest daily driver to root is Sony and Google phones. You simply unlock the bootloader and flash. There's no nonsense to deal with.
      - hparadiz 4y ago
        It's not possible to hard brick. Only soft brick. You can always recover back to stock if you mess up using the official flasher with the stock rom.
- Benjamin_Dobell 4y ago
  Typically, no, Samsung are one of the few manufacturers who consistently don't lock bootloaders. I've been flashing Samsung Android phones for over 10 years: https://github.com/Benjamin-Dobell/Heimdall https://github.com/Benjamin-Dobell/Heimdall That said, they have locked bootloaders on some devices. Predominantly in the US market, I believe at the request of carriers. However, it's traditionally been the minority of devices.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    What? Samsung is the most hostile of manufacturers in this regard. Unlocking the bootloader, installing another bootloader, or running a different kernel burns fuses permanently in the device and renders it unable to use their version of hardware-secured storage, aka "Knox." Kiss some multimedia apps, payment apps, and enterprise security features goodbye...along with a bunch of random features like private mode in their browser.
    - Benjamin_Dobell 4y ago
      Flashing an unsigned (or potentially differently signed) bootloader burns fuses. Sure. However, other manufacturers don't just burn fuses, you specifically need to apply for permission to flash your bootloader e.g. https://www.oneplus.com/support/answer/detail/op588 https://www.oneplus.com/support/answer/detail/op588 Samsung at least don't require personal details for you to take control of your device. Sure, you lose access to some multimedia, but don't blame Samsung for that, blame Widevine DRM certification. Knox goes out the window, but the entire point of Knox is to (try) guarantee a device isn't tampered with. At least you can remove it!
      - williamscales 4y ago
        What does “tampered with” mean? Particularly in the context of a device you own? I would consider a device tampered with if someone besides me (the owner) did something with it, without my authorization. But anything short of that is surely just me using the device. I mean, I have physical possession after all.
- kyriakos 4y ago
  But as an app developer Samsung doesn't claim a cut out of my sales. That's where you start to see the difference.
rjzzleep 4y ago
He might be talking about the fact that the moment you unlock the phone the e-fuse is tripped and a bunch of features get downgraded permanently on their devices. I think they're generally good devices, but they have a nightmare support system and this e-fuse thing is just a major turn off to a lot of people.
snarkyturtle 4y ago
yeah but you're also knowledgeable about all that shit and 99% of people with Android devices won't use alternate app stores. they'll download apps from the google play store, use google services, stream on google chromecast, watch things on youtube tv. google and/or samsung will get all that data and that's how they make money.
ApolloFortyNine 4y ago
Just desparate apple apologists equating installing your own OS to installing an app. Would I like to have an unlocked bootloader? Sure. Is having a locked bootloader equivalent to only being allowed to install Apple approved apps? Of course not.

hparadiz 4y ago

The bootloader in on Samsung Android devices is extremely locked down to prevent rooting. Sideloading is a basic android feature. Ability to root and sideloading are two different but similar issues on the topic of freedom.

smoldesu 4y ago
That's sorta the status-quo. But I'd fully support any legislation that mandates open bootloaders on all devices, definitely would help save the iPad from obscurity.
- FalconSensei 4y ago
  > help save the iPad from obscurity. wait what? It's basically the most used/desired tablet, afaik, at least in Canada/US
GuB-42 4y ago
My experience is that Samsung devices are quite easy to root. There is that e-fuse thing that disable some features permanently, but to my knowledge, these are mostly intended for corporate devices and you can ignore them for personal use.
- hparadiz 4y ago
  With Galaxy phones they are extremely hostile to unsigned flashes to the device. You essentially need to exploit a zero day in the stock rom to get temporary root and then while you have temporary root you flash a new recovery. And then you gotta make sure it doesn't flash the stock recovery back in the next boot by making sure your next reboot goes into the recovery. And then you can flash your custom ROM. I skipped some steps too.
  - visarga 4y ago
    Having to jump through so many hoops is why I never bothered to root my phones. It sounds like 90% chance to brick it.
    - TeMPOraL 4y ago
      It doesn't matter anyway. Thanks to Google pushing remote attestation, all you can expect from a custom ROM is the actually important apps (like bank) no longer working.
      - GuB-42 4y ago
        I think you mean hardware attestation. And yes, it is the biggest problem I have. I can do without KNOX, but it is becoming harder to do without these locked down apps (ex: bank), and workarounds are harder to get by, no matter the manufacturer. And of course forget about anything that isn't iOS or Android. I don't expect banks to support alternative OSes anytime soon. I probably won't root my next phone, not worth the hassle for a daily driver. What could be nice is if phones could run VMs, so you have your stock ROM with all your "important" apps, and a VM where you can run anything you want: hacked Android, Linux, maybe even a desktop OS. Modern phone hardware should be more than powerful enough to do that.
        hparadiz 4y ago
        The only two apps that are affected by Knox is Samsung Pay and Samsung Health. And that is only an issue if you decide to flash the stock rom back on the device. If you use custom roms they typically have a workaround to get both of those apps working with the Knox fuse tripped. The easiest daily driver to root is Sony and Google phones. You simply unlock the bootloader and flash. There's no nonsense to deal with.
    - hparadiz 4y ago
      It's not possible to hard brick. Only soft brick. You can always recover back to stock if you mess up using the official flasher with the stock rom.
Benjamin_Dobell 4y ago
Typically, no, Samsung are one of the few manufacturers who consistently don't lock bootloaders. I've been flashing Samsung Android phones for over 10 years: https://github.com/Benjamin-Dobell/Heimdall https://github.com/Benjamin-Dobell/Heimdall That said, they have locked bootloaders on some devices. Predominantly in the US market, I believe at the request of carriers. However, it's traditionally been the minority of devices.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  What? Samsung is the most hostile of manufacturers in this regard. Unlocking the bootloader, installing another bootloader, or running a different kernel burns fuses permanently in the device and renders it unable to use their version of hardware-secured storage, aka "Knox." Kiss some multimedia apps, payment apps, and enterprise security features goodbye...along with a bunch of random features like private mode in their browser.
  - Benjamin_Dobell 4y ago
    Flashing an unsigned (or potentially differently signed) bootloader burns fuses. Sure. However, other manufacturers don't just burn fuses, you specifically need to apply for permission to flash your bootloader e.g. https://www.oneplus.com/support/answer/detail/op588 https://www.oneplus.com/support/answer/detail/op588 Samsung at least don't require personal details for you to take control of your device. Sure, you lose access to some multimedia, but don't blame Samsung for that, blame Widevine DRM certification. Knox goes out the window, but the entire point of Knox is to (try) guarantee a device isn't tampered with. At least you can remove it!
    - williamscales 4y ago
      What does “tampered with” mean? Particularly in the context of a device you own? I would consider a device tampered with if someone besides me (the owner) did something with it, without my authorization. But anything short of that is surely just me using the device. I mean, I have physical possession after all.
kyriakos 4y ago
But as an app developer Samsung doesn't claim a cut out of my sales. That's where you start to see the difference.

rjzzleep 4y ago

He might be talking about the fact that the moment you unlock the phone the e-fuse is tripped and a bunch of features get downgraded permanently on their devices. I think they're generally good devices, but they have a nightmare support system and this e-fuse thing is just a major turn off to a lot of people.

snarkyturtle 4y ago

yeah but you're also knowledgeable about all that shit and 99% of people with Android devices won't use alternate app stores. they'll download apps from the google play store, use google services, stream on google chromecast, watch things on youtube tv. google and/or samsung will get all that data and that's how they make money.

ApolloFortyNine 4y ago

Just desparate apple apologists equating installing your own OS to installing an app. Would I like to have an unlocked bootloader? Sure. Is having a locked bootloader equivalent to only being allowed to install Apple approved apps? Of course not.