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> The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those Progress on that front is hampered because fruit company only

> The real solution to this is improved functionality of web apps and complete migration to those Progress on that front is hampered because fruit company only allows their own browser and puts just enough effort into it to keep it relevant as a web browser.

judge2020 4y ago
But I see way too many people using Chrome on iOS or the Google App as their main web browser. If it was really about the underlying technology then nobody would download alternative web browsers, but they do, so surely people decide to use these browser apps based on their features like password support, tab design and functionality, etc.
- wvenable 4y ago
  I don't understand your point. All browsers on iOS use the same underlying technology (Webkit) so the only relevant features between iOS browsers is those other features like password support, tab design, etc.
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    This is good. Chrome is the new IE. we are repeating history with Google now controlling the web. Except no one seems to care cos it’s not Microsoft.
    - leeoniya 4y ago
      i submit bug reports to Chromium all the time and - wait for it - they actually get addressed! check this one i reported back in March: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1305342 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=130534... triaged & root-caused quickly, then sat around for a while until what looks like an [MS Edge!] dev picked it up and fixed it 2 days ago (merged 4 hours ago). IE this is not. if anything is like IE(6), it's Safari and iOS Safari, where standardized APIs go unimplemented and bugs go unfixed for years with radio silence. and when bugs do get fixed, it requires a full OS update, just like IE.
    - wvenable 4y ago
      No, Safari is the new IE. There are better browsers but due to it's market share (forced by Apple) developers are forced to limit themselves to it's feature set. And the reasons are the same as well: Microsoft saw the browser as competition to their OS and Apple sees it the same way. So they both limited development of their browser to keep their platform supremacy. The situation is not the same with Google -- the web is their platform. This has it's own issues but it's not history repeating itself.
      - philliphaydon 4y ago
        People used to build websites for IE. Now people build websites for chrome. Firefox is a better browser but people are stuck with chrome cos everything works in chrome. Google controls chromium. Its absolutely history repeating when Google adds is own standards. People whine about iOS Safari but the reality is it works really well and most of the complaints are “it works in chrome but not safari and I don’t want to spend any amount of time looking at it so I won’t support it”
        zarzavat 4y ago
        Two different points in IE’s history. Chrome is like IE in the IE5 era when it was totally dominant and the best browser around. Safari is like IE in the IE7-8 era when it was the worst browser and actively holding back everything else.
        FPGAhacker 4y ago
        That's a load of crap. I use safari for all my browsing with the one exception of using Firefox for read.amazon.com. It's perfectly fine. I'm never working on my computer an thinking, "damnit safari, why can't you just be like chrome/firefox." That never happens. I vastly prefer safari to chrome or Firefox. At work I'll use chrome because some of our web apps only support chrome for whatever reason. But they're garbage IBM puts out, not something you'd use by choice.
        4y ago
  - judge2020 4y ago
    That's entirely my point. People don't use Chrome on desktop because it uses Blink and V8 - they use it because of the UX and UI decisions, and the same goes for Chrome on iOS.
    - zarzavat 4y ago
      People use chrome because it works. In some hypothetical future where many sites are broken with chrome for some reason, some other browser will take over. On iOS that can’t happen.
    - irrational 4y ago
      I use Firefox on the desktop and Safari on iOS. One of the reasons is because I prefer the UX/UI.
    - wvenable 4y ago
      If a hypothetical real Chrome for iOS existed that -- like this thread is about -- let you run native quality apps with access to features that Safari doesn't allow then people would switch over. Imagine actually getting notifications from your apps! If they don't like the UI/UX, I'm sure they'd find hypothetical Chromium variant that suits their needs. Eventually browsers without better underlying technology would just cease to exist. I use Firefox myself but if it stopped keeping up with modern web standards eventually I'd have give it up.
- naet 4y ago
  Chrome on iOS basically has to suffer almost all the same bugs and issues as Safari on iOS because only one underlying browser engine is allowed by Apple on their iOS devices (Webkit, which is maintained by Apple). In this case the window-dressing is different but the technology underneath is largely the same.
spacemadness 4y ago
Is it really all Apple? Sites like Reddit hammer you with “it’s better on the app!” spam so they can force you to see ads and whatever else they want you to see.
- SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
  Don’t forget tracking and data collection. Apps like Reddit’s have at least two motives. It’s bullshit and I hate it. Really hoping that the era of free money ending reigns in these tech companies to being forced to do things in the customer’s interests.
  - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
    I recommend Apollo instead of Reddit to browse Reddit:)
- wvenable 4y ago
  Reddit has ads in the browser. They can't send you notifications, though. At least for now. If the experience is better in the app (for you or for them) then clearly the browser is the limiting factor.
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    Well, given how much their mobile web experience sucks, even disregarding the pop-ups, I can't say that makes me want to download the app
scarface74 4y ago
Most companies have a website, an Android App and an iPhone app. If Apple is the only thing that is keeping great PWAs off the market, why are companies bothering to create Android apps instead of telling Android users just to use their website?

judge2020 4y ago

But I see way too many people using Chrome on iOS or the Google App as their main web browser. If it was really about the underlying technology then nobody would download alternative web browsers, but they do, so surely people decide to use these browser apps based on their features like password support, tab design and functionality, etc.

wvenable 4y ago
I don't understand your point. All browsers on iOS use the same underlying technology (Webkit) so the only relevant features between iOS browsers is those other features like password support, tab design, etc.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  This is good. Chrome is the new IE. we are repeating history with Google now controlling the web. Except no one seems to care cos it’s not Microsoft.
  - leeoniya 4y ago
    i submit bug reports to Chromium all the time and - wait for it - they actually get addressed! check this one i reported back in March: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=1305342 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=130534... triaged & root-caused quickly, then sat around for a while until what looks like an [MS Edge!] dev picked it up and fixed it 2 days ago (merged 4 hours ago). IE this is not. if anything is like IE(6), it's Safari and iOS Safari, where standardized APIs go unimplemented and bugs go unfixed for years with radio silence. and when bugs do get fixed, it requires a full OS update, just like IE.
  - wvenable 4y ago
    No, Safari is the new IE. There are better browsers but due to it's market share (forced by Apple) developers are forced to limit themselves to it's feature set. And the reasons are the same as well: Microsoft saw the browser as competition to their OS and Apple sees it the same way. So they both limited development of their browser to keep their platform supremacy. The situation is not the same with Google -- the web is their platform. This has it's own issues but it's not history repeating itself.
    - philliphaydon 4y ago
      People used to build websites for IE. Now people build websites for chrome. Firefox is a better browser but people are stuck with chrome cos everything works in chrome. Google controls chromium. Its absolutely history repeating when Google adds is own standards. People whine about iOS Safari but the reality is it works really well and most of the complaints are “it works in chrome but not safari and I don’t want to spend any amount of time looking at it so I won’t support it”
      - zarzavat 4y ago
        Two different points in IE’s history. Chrome is like IE in the IE5 era when it was totally dominant and the best browser around. Safari is like IE in the IE7-8 era when it was the worst browser and actively holding back everything else.
        FPGAhacker 4y ago
        That's a load of crap. I use safari for all my browsing with the one exception of using Firefox for read.amazon.com. It's perfectly fine. I'm never working on my computer an thinking, "damnit safari, why can't you just be like chrome/firefox." That never happens. I vastly prefer safari to chrome or Firefox. At work I'll use chrome because some of our web apps only support chrome for whatever reason. But they're garbage IBM puts out, not something you'd use by choice.
        4y ago
- judge2020 4y ago
  That's entirely my point. People don't use Chrome on desktop because it uses Blink and V8 - they use it because of the UX and UI decisions, and the same goes for Chrome on iOS.
  - zarzavat 4y ago
    People use chrome because it works. In some hypothetical future where many sites are broken with chrome for some reason, some other browser will take over. On iOS that can’t happen.
  - irrational 4y ago
    I use Firefox on the desktop and Safari on iOS. One of the reasons is because I prefer the UX/UI.
  - wvenable 4y ago
    If a hypothetical real Chrome for iOS existed that -- like this thread is about -- let you run native quality apps with access to features that Safari doesn't allow then people would switch over. Imagine actually getting notifications from your apps! If they don't like the UI/UX, I'm sure they'd find hypothetical Chromium variant that suits their needs. Eventually browsers without better underlying technology would just cease to exist. I use Firefox myself but if it stopped keeping up with modern web standards eventually I'd have give it up.
naet 4y ago
Chrome on iOS basically has to suffer almost all the same bugs and issues as Safari on iOS because only one underlying browser engine is allowed by Apple on their iOS devices (Webkit, which is maintained by Apple). In this case the window-dressing is different but the technology underneath is largely the same.

spacemadness 4y ago

Is it really all Apple? Sites like Reddit hammer you with “it’s better on the app!” spam so they can force you to see ads and whatever else they want you to see.

SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
Don’t forget tracking and data collection. Apps like Reddit’s have at least two motives. It’s bullshit and I hate it. Really hoping that the era of free money ending reigns in these tech companies to being forced to do things in the customer’s interests.
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  I recommend Apollo instead of Reddit to browse Reddit:)
wvenable 4y ago
Reddit has ads in the browser. They can't send you notifications, though. At least for now. If the experience is better in the app (for you or for them) then clearly the browser is the limiting factor.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  Well, given how much their mobile web experience sucks, even disregarding the pop-ups, I can't say that makes me want to download the app

scarface74 4y ago

Most companies have a website, an Android App and an iPhone app. If Apple is the only thing that is keeping great PWAs off the market, why are companies bothering to create Android apps instead of telling Android users just to use their website?