3 ms·

Is this also a product of the patriarchy?

by sn0w_crash 4y ago

someNameIG 4y ago
> suicides among white males push up firearm fatalities This part could be linked to toxic masculinity.
- throwaway5959 4y ago
  The young white males I know that died from suicide were all wonderful men who suffered from mental health issues.
  - someNameIG 4y ago
    And one of the things with toxic masculinity is not getting help with that, or speaking about issues you are facing. Seeking help is not a sign of weakness, or does it make you less of a man. I am a white man and I feel that type of pressure.
    - boppo1 4y ago
      > Seeking help is not a sign of weakness, or does it make you less of a man. I find women often treat you like it is/does. Men too, but men care more about what women think and hoo boy do they walk differently than they talk. I was raised to be open and honest and avoid "toxic masculinity". Turns out I started to perform better socially when I hid my feelings and thoughts and tried to emphasize visibly masculine qualities. Too bad I didn't pick up on this till I turned 30, might have enjoyed more friendships and romantic relationships.
      - motoxpro 4y ago
        Eh, sounds like you got stuck with the wrong crowd. Avoiding "toxic masculinity" has been absolutely wonderful in both those areas for me.
acdha 4y ago
Nothing like this has a single cause but yes. Consider how certain cultural norms for handling emotions, what shows your value as a man, and how you interact with other men would affect the rates for suicide or escalating violence. Grim economic prospects affect many people but if you’ve been told that you’re valuable to the extent that you’re affluent, or that macho posturing is how to respond to perceived disrespect, it’s understandable that some percentage of men will make worse choices than they might in a more supportive culture. Too many men don’t have a close friend to talk them back off the ledge because they thought showing emotions and vulnerability was a female thing or made you gay.
- dudul 4y ago
  How are the numbers getting worse as all these "toxic things" are currently falling out of fashion? It is now becoming more acceptable for men to behave that way, why wouldn't the numbers improve then?
  - acdha 4y ago
    First, they're far from universally out of fashion — attitudes change unevenly and there's always backlash, and that matters a lot when the attitude shifts are disproportionately driven by college-educated, affluent parents but the crime is not being committed by their children. Second, and more importantly, there's a wicked lag here — gun violence is predominantly a young man's crime so what parents are doing now isn't the question as much as how things were a couple decades ago. Suicide rates peak later, so you might have the question of how, say, many middle-aged white man (the peak demographic) will handle mid-life career or marriage failures based on the values they were raised with (for a lot of us, it was that you're a good man if you earn a solid income so your wife can stay home and your kids want for nothing. Want to guess what's not the case for entirely too many people?).
  - antifa 4y ago
    As much as you can say it's falling out of fashion, just as many others are "doubling down".
- MrPotatoLover 4y ago

Is this also a product of the patriarchy?

someNameIG 4y ago

> suicides among white males push up firearm fatalities This part could be linked to toxic masculinity.

throwaway5959 4y ago
The young white males I know that died from suicide were all wonderful men who suffered from mental health issues.
- someNameIG 4y ago
  And one of the things with toxic masculinity is not getting help with that, or speaking about issues you are facing. Seeking help is not a sign of weakness, or does it make you less of a man. I am a white man and I feel that type of pressure.
  - boppo1 4y ago
    > Seeking help is not a sign of weakness, or does it make you less of a man. I find women often treat you like it is/does. Men too, but men care more about what women think and hoo boy do they walk differently than they talk. I was raised to be open and honest and avoid "toxic masculinity". Turns out I started to perform better socially when I hid my feelings and thoughts and tried to emphasize visibly masculine qualities. Too bad I didn't pick up on this till I turned 30, might have enjoyed more friendships and romantic relationships.
    - motoxpro 4y ago
      Eh, sounds like you got stuck with the wrong crowd. Avoiding "toxic masculinity" has been absolutely wonderful in both those areas for me.

acdha 4y ago

Nothing like this has a single cause but yes. Consider how certain cultural norms for handling emotions, what shows your value as a man, and how you interact with other men would affect the rates for suicide or escalating violence. Grim economic prospects affect many people but if you’ve been told that you’re valuable to the extent that you’re affluent, or that macho posturing is how to respond to perceived disrespect, it’s understandable that some percentage of men will make worse choices than they might in a more supportive culture. Too many men don’t have a close friend to talk them back off the ledge because they thought showing emotions and vulnerability was a female thing or made you gay.

dudul 4y ago
How are the numbers getting worse as all these "toxic things" are currently falling out of fashion? It is now becoming more acceptable for men to behave that way, why wouldn't the numbers improve then?
- acdha 4y ago
  First, they're far from universally out of fashion — attitudes change unevenly and there's always backlash, and that matters a lot when the attitude shifts are disproportionately driven by college-educated, affluent parents but the crime is not being committed by their children. Second, and more importantly, there's a wicked lag here — gun violence is predominantly a young man's crime so what parents are doing now isn't the question as much as how things were a couple decades ago. Suicide rates peak later, so you might have the question of how, say, many middle-aged white man (the peak demographic) will handle mid-life career or marriage failures based on the values they were raised with (for a lot of us, it was that you're a good man if you earn a solid income so your wife can stay home and your kids want for nothing. Want to guess what's not the case for entirely too many people?).
- antifa 4y ago
  As much as you can say it's falling out of fashion, just as many others are "doubling down".
MrPotatoLover 4y ago