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I've experienced this in a similar workplace before and did lead me to spiral and exit, to me it was absolutely exhausting keeping such a ruse up. There was som

I've experienced this in a similar workplace before and did lead me to spiral and exit, to me it was absolutely exhausting keeping such a ruse up. There was something about it that felt so inauthentic, a bit toxic positivity, a bit hide-the-pain-harold. It's like the workplace version of Instagram itself, where everybody shows their best side, is mildly ashamed of feeling anything but positive because of the collective emphasis on "good vibes only" and keeps any concerns, cynicism or suggestions that we're going in the wrong direction under wraps. I think it's ultimately unhealthy (both individually, psychologically and to the company) and leads to the same problems you see in autocratic nations - the leaders only see everything going swimmingly.

chubot 4y ago
So Facebook doesn't have something like memegen? I worked at Google when it was created and "went viral". Before memegen there was a strain of what I would call inauthentic positivity I think memegen made it a lot more acceptable to be cynical, which was probably good, because the company was definitely drinking a lot of its own Kool-aid
- dnissley 4y ago
  Oh we definitely do -- the shitposting workplace group serves this purpose. Also the private nonmanagers group.
  - brazzledazzle 4y ago
    I think a private non-manager group is pretty neat. What happens when an IC gets promoted to manager? Do they get the boot from the group?
    - knodi123 4y ago
      Yeah, there's a ceremony where the manager puts a piece of paper with their username in a goblet and drops in a match, and then the non-managers all collectively intone "gone. gone. gone." and turn their backs. It's kind of sad, but the manager is allowed to keep their ceremonial robe as a memento, and there's usually a box of free cookies, so /shrug
      - bckr 4y ago
        I believed this for a minute and it made me so happy
- paganel 4y ago
  > Before memegen there was a strain of what I would call inauthentic positivity Too lazy to check, but did memegen appear before or after the whole Google+ debacle? Because from the outside Google did seem to drink a lot of its own Kool-aid back then (before and during the first stages of the Google+ launch). In a way, the current discussions around VR remind me of those times, lots and lots of smart people refusing to say that the emperor has no clothes, for one reason or another.
  - rippercushions 4y ago
    Memegen predates Google+. And there were lots of people loudly saying that the emperor has no clothes, but the VP in charge didn't care and many mandates forcing people to work on G+ were issued anyway.
    - hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
      You don't have to work on G+. No one is forcing you. (Oh wait, yes they were.)
  - akozak 4y ago
    Oh yea, but funny enough a lot of the critiques were shared via the internal version of Google+ since people actually took the time to write things and it had a pretty good UX. I don't think it's a great comparison to Meta ... this is anecdotal, but it felt plausible enough as a product strategy and in a self contained org that I think most rank and file gave it breathing room and tried to be constructive (save for a few cases where they'd made some bad calls). Keep in mind it was a period of huge growth and experimentation across the company, so there was a lot to feel positive about even if you were skeptical of Google+, and it didn't feel like they'd bet the farm, in the same way it might at Meta.
  - endtime 4y ago
    Before. I made a Memegen meme about ten years ago comparing the sign in with G+ buttons to the classic Wikipedia Jimmy Wales begging-for-donations banners, and for many years it was one of the top 100 Memegen memes ever.
vlunkr 4y ago
My last two jobs have had this lack of cynicism, but I would describe only one of them as toxic. We were going straight to the top and anyone who left was a traitor. The other simply considered the products to be incredibly important and life-changing. I can live with keeping the cynicism to myself as long as the rest of the culture is ok.
musha68k 4y ago
I also wouldn’t want to work with a person that is just negative all the time but fair critique and moral checks should be encouraged, especially when holding so much power. However well paid at the outset, such “cults” more often than not are ultimately pernicious not only to their environment but their members as well.

chubot 4y ago

So Facebook doesn't have something like memegen? I worked at Google when it was created and "went viral". Before memegen there was a strain of what I would call inauthentic positivity I think memegen made it a lot more acceptable to be cynical, which was probably good, because the company was definitely drinking a lot of its own Kool-aid

dnissley 4y ago
Oh we definitely do -- the shitposting workplace group serves this purpose. Also the private nonmanagers group.
- brazzledazzle 4y ago
  I think a private non-manager group is pretty neat. What happens when an IC gets promoted to manager? Do they get the boot from the group?
  - knodi123 4y ago
    Yeah, there's a ceremony where the manager puts a piece of paper with their username in a goblet and drops in a match, and then the non-managers all collectively intone "gone. gone. gone." and turn their backs. It's kind of sad, but the manager is allowed to keep their ceremonial robe as a memento, and there's usually a box of free cookies, so /shrug
    - bckr 4y ago
      I believed this for a minute and it made me so happy
paganel 4y ago
> Before memegen there was a strain of what I would call inauthentic positivity Too lazy to check, but did memegen appear before or after the whole Google+ debacle? Because from the outside Google did seem to drink a lot of its own Kool-aid back then (before and during the first stages of the Google+ launch). In a way, the current discussions around VR remind me of those times, lots and lots of smart people refusing to say that the emperor has no clothes, for one reason or another.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  Memegen predates Google+. And there were lots of people loudly saying that the emperor has no clothes, but the VP in charge didn't care and many mandates forcing people to work on G+ were issued anyway.
  - hn_go_brrrrr 4y ago
    You don't have to work on G+. No one is forcing you. (Oh wait, yes they were.)
- akozak 4y ago
  Oh yea, but funny enough a lot of the critiques were shared via the internal version of Google+ since people actually took the time to write things and it had a pretty good UX. I don't think it's a great comparison to Meta ... this is anecdotal, but it felt plausible enough as a product strategy and in a self contained org that I think most rank and file gave it breathing room and tried to be constructive (save for a few cases where they'd made some bad calls). Keep in mind it was a period of huge growth and experimentation across the company, so there was a lot to feel positive about even if you were skeptical of Google+, and it didn't feel like they'd bet the farm, in the same way it might at Meta.
- endtime 4y ago
  Before. I made a Memegen meme about ten years ago comparing the sign in with G+ buttons to the classic Wikipedia Jimmy Wales begging-for-donations banners, and for many years it was one of the top 100 Memegen memes ever.

vlunkr 4y ago

My last two jobs have had this lack of cynicism, but I would describe only one of them as toxic. We were going straight to the top and anyone who left was a traitor. The other simply considered the products to be incredibly important and life-changing. I can live with keeping the cynicism to myself as long as the rest of the culture is ok.

musha68k 4y ago

I also wouldn’t want to work with a person that is just negative all the time but fair critique and moral checks should be encouraged, especially when holding so much power. However well paid at the outset, such “cults” more often than not are ultimately pernicious not only to their environment but their members as well.