10 ms·

Yeah if only. Our ops people are too uneducated to be able to deploy anything Apple. Literally there are armies of factory pressed Windows monkeys but nothing i

by gryf 4y ago

Yeah if only. Our ops people are too uneducated to be able to deploy anything Apple. Literally there are armies of factory pressed Windows monkeys but nothing in the Apple space. Note to apple: please start concentrating on the enterprise sector. We're dying over here. My Dell weighs 3x my personal M1 MBP, has a shitty keyboard with keys designed for Borrowers, the battery lasts 8 minutes and it reduces my sperm count if I put it on my lap. It feels like I have a ball and chain around my ankle 24/7. My only escape is WSL2 which is broken as fuck as well (can't run services, cron jobs, X problems etc) and we can't install a simple non-WSL VM on the node because Device Guard requires hyper-v to be enabled excluding sensible and pure VM options like VirtualBox. Docker for windows is a comedy of errors too.

sbarre 4y ago
For what it's worth, I work in a large 30,000 employee company. Everyone gets a Windows machine by default. 6 years ago our department of 200 people "went rogue" and started provisioning Macs, because it was the only way we could hire developers and provide a good developer experience for the work we were doing. This took some convincing, but it was possible. We agreed to be unsupported by the in-house help desk, but we had 2 people in IT that supported us for provisioning and fixing machines, and sorting out a small amount of required enterprise software like a Cisco VPN client and some fleet management background agents. Otherwise, we self-organized support over Slack and in-office and also made use of Apple's business support directly. As of earlier this year, our department is now over 600 people, and we've given our internal IT enough incentive to officially support Macs, which they now do, alongside Windows. They use some kind of MDM software to manage and update and monitor our Macs the same as they do Windows. There are also now additional much larger teams in the organization exploring Mac adoption where it makes sense for their developers too, and we could soon have thousands of Macs in use. So it's definitely possible, even if you have to start small.
- gryf 4y ago
  Unfortunately we're in a regulated industry so getting a PO signed off for one Mac is nigh on impossible without involving the entire corporate machinery.
  - sbarre 4y ago
    We are also a highly regulated industry. Not finance but pretty close. I sympathize with you though, it sounds like there's no will to do it, which sucks :(
- lostmsu 4y ago
  Are your developers forced to use laptops?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Do you propose they carry desktops back and forth from their office and to conference rooms?
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      Every conference room could have a device to facilitate presentation.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        What device is going to have my PowerPoint slides, my IDE, my logged in AWS account, etc and everything else I need for demos? Where I work, every conference room in every corporate office has a TV and a dongle that you can plug in via either HDMI or USB C.
        lostmsu 4y ago
        Any thin client would do.
        scarface74 4y ago
        I’m going to have a “thin client” with my exact setup and my IDE, PowerPoint slides etc? Are you proposing that I work from a thin client? What happens when I’m working from home?
        lostmsu 4y ago
        It's only for meeting rooms.
        4y ago
throwaway821909 4y ago
Can you use a plain Hyper-V VM? i.e. with Hyper-V Manager
- gryf 4y ago
  Tried that but unfortunately there are some painful addressing and routing issues when you are subjected to when dealign with a corporate always on VPN. Ergo you can't actually contact clusters which you have to admin via kubectl.
  - xenophonf 4y ago
    What's stopping you from running kubectl.exe or Cygwin? Frankly, I still think Cygwin's better than WSL in many ways.
vetinari 4y ago
FYI, with WSL2 1.0, you can finally enable systemd, so you can run services and cron jobs.
- gryf 4y ago
  Thanks for the tip off. I will look into this tomorrow. This is why I'm here. The distributed consciousness of HN is a wonderful problem solving engine :)
dserodio 4y ago
Never user Docker for Windows, but Docker for Mac has not been great lately either. Granted, macOS changes a lot between each release but our company is paying for Docker Desktop licenses and the experience has really been disappointing.
scarface74 4y ago
> Note to apple: please start concentrating on the enterprise sector. We're dying over here. Enterprise sales are where the customer is not the user. Apple does best when the user is the purchaser. Also, I know for a fact that Macs are well supported at scale by many large tech companies including my own.

by gryf 4y ago

sbarre 4y ago

For what it's worth, I work in a large 30,000 employee company. Everyone gets a Windows machine by default. 6 years ago our department of 200 people "went rogue" and started provisioning Macs, because it was the only way we could hire developers and provide a good developer experience for the work we were doing. This took some convincing, but it was possible. We agreed to be unsupported by the in-house help desk, but we had 2 people in IT that supported us for provisioning and fixing machines, and sorting out a small amount of required enterprise software like a Cisco VPN client and some fleet management background agents. Otherwise, we self-organized support over Slack and in-office and also made use of Apple's business support directly. As of earlier this year, our department is now over 600 people, and we've given our internal IT enough incentive to officially support Macs, which they now do, alongside Windows. They use some kind of MDM software to manage and update and monitor our Macs the same as they do Windows. There are also now additional much larger teams in the organization exploring Mac adoption where it makes sense for their developers too, and we could soon have thousands of Macs in use. So it's definitely possible, even if you have to start small.

gryf 4y ago
Unfortunately we're in a regulated industry so getting a PO signed off for one Mac is nigh on impossible without involving the entire corporate machinery.
- sbarre 4y ago
  We are also a highly regulated industry. Not finance but pretty close. I sympathize with you though, it sounds like there's no will to do it, which sucks :(
lostmsu 4y ago
Are your developers forced to use laptops?
- scarface74 4y ago
  Do you propose they carry desktops back and forth from their office and to conference rooms?
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    Every conference room could have a device to facilitate presentation.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      What device is going to have my PowerPoint slides, my IDE, my logged in AWS account, etc and everything else I need for demos? Where I work, every conference room in every corporate office has a TV and a dongle that you can plug in via either HDMI or USB C.
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        Any thin client would do.
        scarface74 4y ago
        I’m going to have a “thin client” with my exact setup and my IDE, PowerPoint slides etc? Are you proposing that I work from a thin client? What happens when I’m working from home?
        lostmsu 4y ago
        It's only for meeting rooms.
        4y ago

throwaway821909 4y ago

Can you use a plain Hyper-V VM? i.e. with Hyper-V Manager

gryf 4y ago
Tried that but unfortunately there are some painful addressing and routing issues when you are subjected to when dealign with a corporate always on VPN. Ergo you can't actually contact clusters which you have to admin via kubectl.
- xenophonf 4y ago
  What's stopping you from running kubectl.exe or Cygwin? Frankly, I still think Cygwin's better than WSL in many ways.

vetinari 4y ago

FYI, with WSL2 1.0, you can finally enable systemd, so you can run services and cron jobs.

gryf 4y ago
Thanks for the tip off. I will look into this tomorrow. This is why I'm here. The distributed consciousness of HN is a wonderful problem solving engine :)

dserodio 4y ago

Never user Docker for Windows, but Docker for Mac has not been great lately either. Granted, macOS changes a lot between each release but our company is paying for Docker Desktop licenses and the experience has really been disappointing.

scarface74 4y ago

> Note to apple: please start concentrating on the enterprise sector. We're dying over here. Enterprise sales are where the customer is not the user. Apple does best when the user is the purchaser. Also, I know for a fact that Macs are well supported at scale by many large tech companies including my own.