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The US doesn't purposeful target innocent people. Russia is raping and torturing Children[1]. US citizens have all the ability to criticize others - saying that

The US doesn't purposeful target innocent people. Russia is raping and torturing Children[1]. US citizens have all the ability to criticize others - saying that because other bad things happened they're unable to ever point out anything bad happened is foolish. Saying that the US is profiteering by providing billions in weapons and aid to Ukraine, which it will never get back, betrays your lack of objectivity or reasonability. Ukraine fights for it's very existence against a genocidal war of aggression by it's neighbor. The systematic torture, targeting of civilians by Russia along with open calls for the destruction of the Ukrainian people by Russian media makes it clear what Russia's objective is. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tort...

mardifoufs 4y ago
Not to justify anything done by russia, but your comment is veering well into American war crime denialism. You can criticize russia without whitewashing the horrific actions of the US in their own wars of aggression. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings
- onepointsixC 4y ago
  This is just bad faith, I did no such whitewashing. The actions carried out in your source clearly is not US policy and the soldiers involved were not only brought to justice but the prosecutors attempted but failed to get the death penalty for the perpetrators. There is a very clear difference between systematically targeting innocents as policy, waging a war of terror to bomb a people into submission that is happening in Ukraine, and the targeted drone strikes carried out as part of the GWT.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    When you cause hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, to say it's not a matter of policy is a complete cop out. Russia also ostensibly does not have a policy of murder and rape, not publicly and not officially at least. It is through their actions that we can infer such a thing, just like we can do the same for the actions (and not "official policy") of the americans. Hundreds of thousands of people still died directly because of American imperialism, so it does not matter what was publicly said. (Also, my comment on denialism was related to "The US does not purposefully target innocent people", when there are multiple examples of American soldiers doing just that. To separate the US from the actions of its soldiers is asinine, because you dont extend the same separation to the russians. Which only makes sense because you are defending "your" side.)
    - onepointsixC 4y ago
      The only cop out is you pretending that every civilian who had died was at the hands of the US, when the civilian casualties of the GWT was overwhelmingly caused by sectarian violence and mass casualty terror attacks on civilians. > separate the US from the actions of its soldiers is asinine, because you dont extend the same separation to the russians. Which only makes sense because you are defending "your" side. I make the distinction because as your own source had stated the soldiers responsible were prosecuted and punished. Show me the Russian Federation prosecuting and punishing Russian soldiers for the thousands of cases of rape, torture, and executions that had happened in occupied Ukraine. If that were to occur then it would make sense to make such a distinction. The reason why it doesn't is the overwhelming scale over a very short period of time, with no signs of any sort of punishments to those carrying out the crimes. Maybe you could have a point if there were a good alternative theory as to why Russia is using their limited supplies of expensive precision guided munitions on clearly civilian targets deep in Ukraine which are far from front lines and uninvolved in military industry. There have been none because it is overwhelmingly clear Russia's inability to win militarily has shifted their tactics to that of terror bombing in hopes of destroying the will of the Ukrainian people.
trap_goes_hot 4y ago
>Saying that the US is profiteering by providing billions in weapons and aid to Ukraine, which it will never get back, betrays your lack of objectivity or reasonability. Or maybe, you've missed recent developments? https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1505946734345994241 https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1505946734345994241 https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-europe-ukraine-gas-inflation-reduction-act-ira-joe-biden-rift-west-eu-accuses-us-of-profiting-from-war/ https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-europe-uk...
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  > https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1505946734345994241 https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1505946734345994241 This is a very weird source, of course US defence manufactures stocks go up when the US buys a lot weapons for other countries, its a huge investment in the company and any publicly traded company would see a stock movement with that kind of investment.
  - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
    At the risk of stating the obvious - that is what the military industrial complex is. Once you "donate" weapons - who is going to service them? Who gets the contracts for maintenance, ammunition, training, etc, etc? For the US, war is big business. This "donation" isn't altruistic or an accident.
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      I dare say the people servicing the weapons in a war zone in Ukraine are going to be the Ukrainians. Ammo is coming from everywhere, either stock piles or other countries when appropriate. And to the Ukrainians this is altruistic, the Americans are handing over advanced weapons for free to help fight off an invading army. It doesn’t get much more altruistic than that.
      - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
        No, the Ukrainians are not going to service radars, helicopters, drones, tanks that they have no idea about and were just given. Nothing is for free - and that is the point, it feeds the US war machine.

mardifoufs 4y ago

Not to justify anything done by russia, but your comment is veering well into American war crime denialism. You can criticize russia without whitewashing the horrific actions of the US in their own wars of aggression. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings

onepointsixC 4y ago
This is just bad faith, I did no such whitewashing. The actions carried out in your source clearly is not US policy and the soldiers involved were not only brought to justice but the prosecutors attempted but failed to get the death penalty for the perpetrators. There is a very clear difference between systematically targeting innocents as policy, waging a war of terror to bomb a people into submission that is happening in Ukraine, and the targeted drone strikes carried out as part of the GWT.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  When you cause hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, to say it's not a matter of policy is a complete cop out. Russia also ostensibly does not have a policy of murder and rape, not publicly and not officially at least. It is through their actions that we can infer such a thing, just like we can do the same for the actions (and not "official policy") of the americans. Hundreds of thousands of people still died directly because of American imperialism, so it does not matter what was publicly said. (Also, my comment on denialism was related to "The US does not purposefully target innocent people", when there are multiple examples of American soldiers doing just that. To separate the US from the actions of its soldiers is asinine, because you dont extend the same separation to the russians. Which only makes sense because you are defending "your" side.)
  - onepointsixC 4y ago
    The only cop out is you pretending that every civilian who had died was at the hands of the US, when the civilian casualties of the GWT was overwhelmingly caused by sectarian violence and mass casualty terror attacks on civilians. > separate the US from the actions of its soldiers is asinine, because you dont extend the same separation to the russians. Which only makes sense because you are defending "your" side. I make the distinction because as your own source had stated the soldiers responsible were prosecuted and punished. Show me the Russian Federation prosecuting and punishing Russian soldiers for the thousands of cases of rape, torture, and executions that had happened in occupied Ukraine. If that were to occur then it would make sense to make such a distinction. The reason why it doesn't is the overwhelming scale over a very short period of time, with no signs of any sort of punishments to those carrying out the crimes. Maybe you could have a point if there were a good alternative theory as to why Russia is using their limited supplies of expensive precision guided munitions on clearly civilian targets deep in Ukraine which are far from front lines and uninvolved in military industry. There have been none because it is overwhelmingly clear Russia's inability to win militarily has shifted their tactics to that of terror bombing in hopes of destroying the will of the Ukrainian people.

trap_goes_hot 4y ago

>Saying that the US is profiteering by providing billions in weapons and aid to Ukraine, which it will never get back, betrays your lack of objectivity or reasonability. Or maybe, you've missed recent developments? https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1505946734345994241 https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1505946734345994241 https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-europe-ukraine-gas-inflation-reduction-act-ira-joe-biden-rift-west-eu-accuses-us-of-profiting-from-war/ https://www.politico.eu/article/vladimir-putin-war-europe-uk...

_kbh_ 4y ago
> https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1505946734345994241 https://twitter.com/kimdotcom/status/1505946734345994241 This is a very weird source, of course US defence manufactures stocks go up when the US buys a lot weapons for other countries, its a huge investment in the company and any publicly traded company would see a stock movement with that kind of investment.
- trap_goes_hot 4y ago
  At the risk of stating the obvious - that is what the military industrial complex is. Once you "donate" weapons - who is going to service them? Who gets the contracts for maintenance, ammunition, training, etc, etc? For the US, war is big business. This "donation" isn't altruistic or an accident.
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    I dare say the people servicing the weapons in a war zone in Ukraine are going to be the Ukrainians. Ammo is coming from everywhere, either stock piles or other countries when appropriate. And to the Ukrainians this is altruistic, the Americans are handing over advanced weapons for free to help fight off an invading army. It doesn’t get much more altruistic than that.
    - trap_goes_hot 4y ago
      No, the Ukrainians are not going to service radars, helicopters, drones, tanks that they have no idea about and were just given. Nothing is for free - and that is the point, it feeds the US war machine.