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Heh, everyone is hypocritical some of the time, so it doesn't bother me as much. Its just online posturing on HN/Twitter/Facebook. The people shouting the loude

Heh, everyone is hypocritical some of the time, so it doesn't bother me as much. Its just online posturing on HN/Twitter/Facebook. The people shouting the loudest about vaccines or whatever other hot topic often do not have expertise or knowledge on that topic. But I get it, people like to complain a lot about everything. Its not really a political thing, its universal in all countries. To me, what is annoying is that US citizens elect monsters who drone bomb innocent people for decades[1] - like 300,000 bombs since 2001 (that we know of) - but think they have the moral high ground to criticize other governments for their actions. I mean even now the US is profiteering off the war in Ukraine. The US wants constant war everywhere to feed its military industrial complex, but but .. Uyghurs!! China's government is horrible/oppressive, but I'm drawing a blank on which country they most recently bombed. [1] https://progressive.org/latest/usa-bombs-drop-benjamin-davies-220112/ https://progressive.org/latest/usa-bombs-drop-benjamin-davie...

josephcsible 4y ago
There's a really, really big difference between accidentally killing civilians while attacking military targets, and intentionally killing civilians.
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  1 million dead civilians caused directly by US imperialism is still a lot of accidental deaths. To the point where intentions are completely irrelevant
  - onepointsixC 4y ago
    It is amazing how easily you wipe away agency and blood off those who actually actually carried out the overwhelming majority of the violence which killed those civilians.
    - mardifoufs 4y ago
      If America didn't decide to invade a country that it had absolutely no business invading, exactly like Russia did, how many would have died? The US knew exactly what it was doing when it took advantage of very old sectarian conflicts and reignited them so that it could more easily occupy the country. I'm not wiping away the responsibility of the insurgeants who killed civilians (the US directly killed tens of thousands too), but I'm also not handwaving away America's responsibility like you seem to be doing just because you can't seem to accept that the US military destroyed an the lives of an entire generation of people, and the region they live in.
      - onepointsixC 4y ago
        >how many would have died? This is literally unknowable. Iraq in all likely would have become another Syria during the Arab Spring under Saddam. > The US knew exactly what it was doing when it took advantage of very old sectarian conflicts and reignited them so that it could more easily occupy the country. Have you resorted to just make things up now?
        mardifoufs 4y ago
        Are you saying that they did not play the sunni and shia divide? Again your first point is a complete cop out. Ukraine could've spiraled into a civil war anyways, so russia isn't really responsible for the deaths happening now. Right?
- trap_goes_hot 4y ago
  Intent matters, yes. But tell me - If your home was bombed, and your family was dead, would you care?
onepointsixC 4y ago
The US doesn't purposeful target innocent people. Russia is raping and torturing Children[1]. US citizens have all the ability to criticize others - saying that because other bad things happened they're unable to ever point out anything bad happened is foolish. Saying that the US is profiteering by providing billions in weapons and aid to Ukraine, which it will never get back, betrays your lack of objectivity or reasonability. Ukraine fights for it's very existence against a genocidal war of aggression by it's neighbor. The systematic torture, targeting of civilians by Russia along with open calls for the destruction of the Ukrainian people by Russian media makes it clear what Russia's objective is. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tort...
- mardifoufs 4y ago
  Not to justify anything done by russia, but your comment is veering well into American war crime denialism. You can criticize russia without whitewashing the horrific actions of the US in their own wars of aggression. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings
  - onepointsixC 4y ago
    This is just bad faith, I did no such whitewashing. The actions carried out in your source clearly is not US policy and the soldiers involved were not only brought to justice but the prosecutors attempted but failed to get the death penalty for the perpetrators. There is a very clear difference between systematically targeting innocents as policy, waging a war of terror to bomb a people into submission that is happening in Ukraine, and the targeted drone strikes carried out as part of the GWT.
    - mardifoufs 4y ago
      When you cause hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, to say it's not a matter of policy is a complete cop out. Russia also ostensibly does not have a policy of murder and rape, not publicly and not officially at least. It is through their actions that we can infer such a thing, just like we can do the same for the actions (and not "official policy") of the americans. Hundreds of thousands of people still died directly because of American imperialism, so it does not matter what was publicly said. (Also, my comment on denialism was related to "The US does not purposefully target innocent people", when there are multiple examples of American soldiers doing just that. To separate the US from the actions of its soldiers is asinine, because you dont extend the same separation to the russians. Which only makes sense because you are defending "your" side.)

josephcsible 4y ago

There's a really, really big difference between accidentally killing civilians while attacking military targets, and intentionally killing civilians.

mardifoufs 4y ago
1 million dead civilians caused directly by US imperialism is still a lot of accidental deaths. To the point where intentions are completely irrelevant
- onepointsixC 4y ago
  It is amazing how easily you wipe away agency and blood off those who actually actually carried out the overwhelming majority of the violence which killed those civilians.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    If America didn't decide to invade a country that it had absolutely no business invading, exactly like Russia did, how many would have died? The US knew exactly what it was doing when it took advantage of very old sectarian conflicts and reignited them so that it could more easily occupy the country. I'm not wiping away the responsibility of the insurgeants who killed civilians (the US directly killed tens of thousands too), but I'm also not handwaving away America's responsibility like you seem to be doing just because you can't seem to accept that the US military destroyed an the lives of an entire generation of people, and the region they live in.
    - onepointsixC 4y ago
      >how many would have died? This is literally unknowable. Iraq in all likely would have become another Syria during the Arab Spring under Saddam. > The US knew exactly what it was doing when it took advantage of very old sectarian conflicts and reignited them so that it could more easily occupy the country. Have you resorted to just make things up now?
      - mardifoufs 4y ago
        Are you saying that they did not play the sunni and shia divide? Again your first point is a complete cop out. Ukraine could've spiraled into a civil war anyways, so russia isn't really responsible for the deaths happening now. Right?
trap_goes_hot 4y ago
Intent matters, yes. But tell me - If your home was bombed, and your family was dead, would you care?

onepointsixC 4y ago

The US doesn't purposeful target innocent people. Russia is raping and torturing Children[1]. US citizens have all the ability to criticize others - saying that because other bad things happened they're unable to ever point out anything bad happened is foolish. Saying that the US is profiteering by providing billions in weapons and aid to Ukraine, which it will never get back, betrays your lack of objectivity or reasonability. Ukraine fights for it's very existence against a genocidal war of aggression by it's neighbor. The systematic torture, targeting of civilians by Russia along with open calls for the destruction of the Ukrainian people by Russian media makes it clear what Russia's objective is. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tortured-children-ukraine-un-panel-says-rcna49168 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russian-troops-raped-tort...

mardifoufs 4y ago
Not to justify anything done by russia, but your comment is veering well into American war crime denialism. You can criticize russia without whitewashing the horrific actions of the US in their own wars of aggression. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings
- onepointsixC 4y ago
  This is just bad faith, I did no such whitewashing. The actions carried out in your source clearly is not US policy and the soldiers involved were not only brought to justice but the prosecutors attempted but failed to get the death penalty for the perpetrators. There is a very clear difference between systematically targeting innocents as policy, waging a war of terror to bomb a people into submission that is happening in Ukraine, and the targeted drone strikes carried out as part of the GWT.
  - mardifoufs 4y ago
    When you cause hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, to say it's not a matter of policy is a complete cop out. Russia also ostensibly does not have a policy of murder and rape, not publicly and not officially at least. It is through their actions that we can infer such a thing, just like we can do the same for the actions (and not "official policy") of the americans. Hundreds of thousands of people still died directly because of American imperialism, so it does not matter what was publicly said. (Also, my comment on denialism was related to "The US does not purposefully target innocent people", when there are multiple examples of American soldiers doing just that. To separate the US from the actions of its soldiers is asinine, because you dont extend the same separation to the russians. Which only makes sense because you are defending "your" side.)