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No substance, same arguments repeated from both sides all the time. Seems like a stalemate. I see to ways out for a company that feels it’s getting ripped of b

No substance, same arguments repeated from both sides all the time. Seems like a stalemate. I see to ways out for a company that feels it’s getting ripped of by Apple: 1. Don’t publish in App Store, do a web app or encourage your customers to get a different platform device. Not sure which one since Google Play Store AFAIK has the same rules. 2. Charge users +30% more when buying through IAP if same is offered any place else and eat this as a cost of doing business. Apple owns the platform. Apple sets the rules.

ThatPlayer 4y ago
That doesn't work when you're preventing competition. Look at when movie studios used to set a ton of rules for their movies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Anti-trust_Case_of_1948 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Anti-trust_Case_of_1...
- jfengel 4y ago
  Nothing about that article actually describes any harm done. It's often called the Golden Age of Hollywood, and many of the greatest movies of all time were made under the studio system. It's not even clear that the collusion increased ticket prices. Recently, in fact, the decrees have been reversed. Studios are allowed to own movie theaters again. I'm just curious why you picked that one. There are many better cases illustrating the dangers of monopolies.
  - ThatPlayer 4y ago
    I pick that one because there's always arguments that Apple is not a monopoly (just switch to Android) therefore other examples of dangers of monopolies don't apply. The studio system was multiple oligopolies and not a monopoly. I think it parallels the current smartphone app market more. The decrees were reversed because they served their purpose and studios no longer have oligopolies, not because there were new findings or research that suggested the decrees were not worth doing.
    - jfengel 4y ago
      I see, but what were the harms of that oligopoly? The case documented that they violated the law, to be sure. There was certainly the potential for harm. But how much harm was actually done? As far as I can tell the ones who objected most to the studio system were the actors, not the audiences. It's why the Screen Actors Guild was created; the abuses were well documented. This case illustrates that an oligopoly can be broken up if it acts as a cartel. Do Apple and Google do that? Sorry; I don't mean to sound like I'm "Just Asking Questions". I'm not a lawyer, but I am an actor with a bit of understanding of the studio system history so I'm interested in the lessons.
    - jonathankoren 4y ago
      I’m old enough to remember the Microsoft monopoly. 2022 Apple isn’t like that at all. Back in the 90s, telling someone to just buy a Mac, was a joke. No one had macs, besides schools, but even those went away. Apps simply didn’t exist on Mac. Files couldn’t even be transferred between machines because the floppies were formatted differently. To not use a windows PC, was an actual burden. Now let’s compare to 2022 Apple. You don’t want an iPhone, get an android. They’re literally everywhere phones are sold, and you can even egg them for free with a service contract. So what do you lose if switch to it? FaceTime? Um… okay. What popular apps aren’t on android? I honestly don’t know. Even the built in iOS apps, have equivalents that are often even installed on iPhones. Everything else is the web. There’s no lock in.
      - ThatPlayer 4y ago
        I'll go with EU's ruling when they ruled that Apple App Store didn't compete with Google's Play Store. They'll explain it better than I can. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_4581 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_...
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Files were able to be exchanged between Macs and Windows PCs as far back as 1990. The Mac came with an extension to read DOS formatted disk.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Terretta 4y ago
3. Put the app in SetApp program: https://setapp.com https://setapp.com (This is awesome, btw, like Apple Arcade or Apple Music but for indie Apps crafted with care.) 4. Sell accounts outside the app.
stale2002 4y ago
> Apple owns the platform. Apple sets the rules They do until we force them, via government action to change them. It's already happening in the EU with the digital markets act soon. Maybe this new controversy will finally convince the US to pass the open app market act that is under consideration.
steve76 4y ago
sylens 4y ago
Option 1 is made more difficult by the fact that Apple prevents alternative web browser engines on iOS and does not implement modern PWA features in the one they do allow (their own) It absolutely undermines the credibility of that argument

ThatPlayer 4y ago

That doesn't work when you're preventing competition. Look at when movie studios used to set a ton of rules for their movies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Anti-trust_Case_of_1948 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Anti-trust_Case_of_1...

jfengel 4y ago
Nothing about that article actually describes any harm done. It's often called the Golden Age of Hollywood, and many of the greatest movies of all time were made under the studio system. It's not even clear that the collusion increased ticket prices. Recently, in fact, the decrees have been reversed. Studios are allowed to own movie theaters again. I'm just curious why you picked that one. There are many better cases illustrating the dangers of monopolies.
- ThatPlayer 4y ago
  I pick that one because there's always arguments that Apple is not a monopoly (just switch to Android) therefore other examples of dangers of monopolies don't apply. The studio system was multiple oligopolies and not a monopoly. I think it parallels the current smartphone app market more. The decrees were reversed because they served their purpose and studios no longer have oligopolies, not because there were new findings or research that suggested the decrees were not worth doing.
  - jfengel 4y ago
    I see, but what were the harms of that oligopoly? The case documented that they violated the law, to be sure. There was certainly the potential for harm. But how much harm was actually done? As far as I can tell the ones who objected most to the studio system were the actors, not the audiences. It's why the Screen Actors Guild was created; the abuses were well documented. This case illustrates that an oligopoly can be broken up if it acts as a cartel. Do Apple and Google do that? Sorry; I don't mean to sound like I'm "Just Asking Questions". I'm not a lawyer, but I am an actor with a bit of understanding of the studio system history so I'm interested in the lessons.
  - jonathankoren 4y ago
    I’m old enough to remember the Microsoft monopoly. 2022 Apple isn’t like that at all. Back in the 90s, telling someone to just buy a Mac, was a joke. No one had macs, besides schools, but even those went away. Apps simply didn’t exist on Mac. Files couldn’t even be transferred between machines because the floppies were formatted differently. To not use a windows PC, was an actual burden. Now let’s compare to 2022 Apple. You don’t want an iPhone, get an android. They’re literally everywhere phones are sold, and you can even egg them for free with a service contract. So what do you lose if switch to it? FaceTime? Um… okay. What popular apps aren’t on android? I honestly don’t know. Even the built in iOS apps, have equivalents that are often even installed on iPhones. Everything else is the web. There’s no lock in.
    - ThatPlayer 4y ago
      I'll go with EU's ruling when they ruled that Apple App Store didn't compete with Google's Play Store. They'll explain it better than I can. https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_4581 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_18_...
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Files were able to be exchanged between Macs and Windows PCs as far back as 1990. The Mac came with an extension to read DOS formatted disk.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Terretta 4y ago

3. Put the app in SetApp program: https://setapp.com https://setapp.com (This is awesome, btw, like Apple Arcade or Apple Music but for indie Apps crafted with care.) 4. Sell accounts outside the app.

stale2002 4y ago

> Apple owns the platform. Apple sets the rules They do until we force them, via government action to change them. It's already happening in the EU with the digital markets act soon. Maybe this new controversy will finally convince the US to pass the open app market act that is under consideration.

steve76 4y ago

sylens 4y ago

Option 1 is made more difficult by the fact that Apple prevents alternative web browser engines on iOS and does not implement modern PWA features in the one they do allow (their own) It absolutely undermines the credibility of that argument