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It's pretty obvious that legislation or anti-trust action will come that opens up mobile computing platforms. Considering the whole of a large market share mob

It's pretty obvious that legislation or anti-trust action will come that opens up mobile computing platforms. Considering the whole of a large market share mobile computing OS a private market, and not subject to competitive pressures, leads to monopolistic capture similar to what utilities could achieve without regulation. Why not just move to another neighborhood if you don't like your electric bill? Well then you're subject to the monopoly on that side of the fence just the same. Illusion of choice/competition Competitive markets are what drive down margins, thus feed those margin savings back into consumer's pockets. Cheaper goods+services are what enriches broader society and are a net positive in my view. Some states solve the natural monopoly problem with utilities by allowing consumers to choose the energy provider separately from the utility itself. e.g making the power provider a competitive market. If Apple's app store and browser are the best, and people prefer them, they can continue to use them. But they will have other choices in the future

vanilla_nut 4y ago
I'm less optimistic about the inevitability of this in the United States. We haven't been able to maintain competition in any utility spaces I can think of -- internet, cable, gas, electricity, etc. There's no freedom of choice in the healthcare industry either. In many parts of the country, almost all grocery stores are part of the same massive conglomerate. The FCC is completely captured by the ISPs, and currently missing a chair, IIRC. So what makes you so optimistic about regulation in the tech space breaking up these monopolies?
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  The consequences of the lack of competition are borne by a huge number of other wealthy companies/people. Affecting pretty much anybody that builds a product that spans across mobile devices. Spotify and Netflix pay Apple a huge percentage of their subscription revenue, for example... simply because the consumer signed up via iPhone. This is not a chorus of small time devs, these are huge companies
  - greedo 4y ago
    Netflix pays reduced percentages to Apple. Been this way for a long time from what I recall. Other big companies negotiate the percentage as well.
    - ThatPlayer 4y ago
      Netflix removed In-App Subscriptions on iOS years ago: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/12/28/netflix-no-more-itunes-billing-options/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/12/28/netflix-no-more-itunes-... . Now that Apple is under anti-trust scrutiny, Netflix recently added a link to their website just a few months ago: https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/25/netflixs-ios-app-now-has-a-sign-up-button-that-takes-you-to-its-website/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/25/netflixs-ios-app-now-has-a...
    - adam_arthur 4y ago
      Doesn’t matter if they get a better rate than market. The precise number doesn’t change the stated dynamics or situation at all. That there are app developers that get preferential treatment just demonstrates the arbitrary power Apple has over choosing winners and losers
      - mrguyorama 4y ago
        But big companies love these kind of barriers, it prevents small competitors from being able to exist. Besides, Google takes a cut of things in their store, Epic from theirs, and if facebook made the metaverse work, you can bet your ass they'd try and take a thirty percent cut. They would never fight against that, it's literally free money.
        AlexandrB 4y ago
        30% is for amateurs. Meta is taking 48%: https://www.engadget.com/meta-metaverse-virtual-good-sales-cut-142832149.html https://www.engadget.com/meta-metaverse-virtual-good-sales-c...
- arcbyte 4y ago
  Funny that the monopolies you mention are all highly regulated industries with government-granted monopolies.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
veilrap 4y ago
The restricted App Store does add customer value, and that customer value is degraded if there are other App Stores available. Namely - if a user buys Apple products because they want the security/curation/whatever that comes with Apple's walled garden, that advantage is broken by forcing Apple to have other app stores on their platform because now that user cannot get all the content through their trusted source as they could before.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- pessimizer 4y ago
  So having more than one app store degrades the experience of people who choose to use Apple's app store like having more than one newspaper degrades the experience of people who read the New York Post.
  - cmdli 4y ago
    That's exactly true. Right now, app megacorporations are only using Apple's App Store (with the protections like Ask Not To Track) because they are forced to. The moment those corporations aren't forced to, they will turn around and force whatever consumers to use the app store that the corporations prefer. The choice of app store isn't ever in the consumer's hands, its in the corporations hands (Apple or otherwise).
    - ArnoVW 4y ago
      If that were the true reason that Apple is forcing Appstore, and that's a big if, then Apple could still offer this "amazing service to customers", by contractually forcing companies to always also offer payments via Apple if payments are accepted elsewhere. If I can think of that in 30 seconds, then so can Apple. I'll let you draw your own conclusion.
      - coldpie 4y ago
        If the app is distributed via a non-Apple app store, then there is no contract between the app developer and Apple. What mechanism would Apple have to enforce that policy?
tootie 4y ago
So long as Android exists and users aren't strictly locked to the Play Store, I don't think an antitrust case would succeed.
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  Competitors to utilities exist too. Anti-trust is more nuanced than whether there’s a single party monopoly. And it certainly will apply here

vanilla_nut 4y ago

I'm less optimistic about the inevitability of this in the United States. We haven't been able to maintain competition in any utility spaces I can think of -- internet, cable, gas, electricity, etc. There's no freedom of choice in the healthcare industry either. In many parts of the country, almost all grocery stores are part of the same massive conglomerate. The FCC is completely captured by the ISPs, and currently missing a chair, IIRC. So what makes you so optimistic about regulation in the tech space breaking up these monopolies?

adam_arthur 4y ago
The consequences of the lack of competition are borne by a huge number of other wealthy companies/people. Affecting pretty much anybody that builds a product that spans across mobile devices. Spotify and Netflix pay Apple a huge percentage of their subscription revenue, for example... simply because the consumer signed up via iPhone. This is not a chorus of small time devs, these are huge companies
- greedo 4y ago
  Netflix pays reduced percentages to Apple. Been this way for a long time from what I recall. Other big companies negotiate the percentage as well.
  - ThatPlayer 4y ago
    Netflix removed In-App Subscriptions on iOS years ago: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/12/28/netflix-no-more-itunes-billing-options/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/12/28/netflix-no-more-itunes-... . Now that Apple is under anti-trust scrutiny, Netflix recently added a link to their website just a few months ago: https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/25/netflixs-ios-app-now-has-a-sign-up-button-that-takes-you-to-its-website/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/07/25/netflixs-ios-app-now-has-a...
  - adam_arthur 4y ago
    Doesn’t matter if they get a better rate than market. The precise number doesn’t change the stated dynamics or situation at all. That there are app developers that get preferential treatment just demonstrates the arbitrary power Apple has over choosing winners and losers
    - mrguyorama 4y ago
      But big companies love these kind of barriers, it prevents small competitors from being able to exist. Besides, Google takes a cut of things in their store, Epic from theirs, and if facebook made the metaverse work, you can bet your ass they'd try and take a thirty percent cut. They would never fight against that, it's literally free money.
      - AlexandrB 4y ago
        30% is for amateurs. Meta is taking 48%: https://www.engadget.com/meta-metaverse-virtual-good-sales-cut-142832149.html https://www.engadget.com/meta-metaverse-virtual-good-sales-c...
arcbyte 4y ago
Funny that the monopolies you mention are all highly regulated industries with government-granted monopolies.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

veilrap 4y ago

The restricted App Store does add customer value, and that customer value is degraded if there are other App Stores available. Namely - if a user buys Apple products because they want the security/curation/whatever that comes with Apple's walled garden, that advantage is broken by forcing Apple to have other app stores on their platform because now that user cannot get all the content through their trusted source as they could before.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pessimizer 4y ago
So having more than one app store degrades the experience of people who choose to use Apple's app store like having more than one newspaper degrades the experience of people who read the New York Post.
- cmdli 4y ago
  That's exactly true. Right now, app megacorporations are only using Apple's App Store (with the protections like Ask Not To Track) because they are forced to. The moment those corporations aren't forced to, they will turn around and force whatever consumers to use the app store that the corporations prefer. The choice of app store isn't ever in the consumer's hands, its in the corporations hands (Apple or otherwise).
  - ArnoVW 4y ago
    If that were the true reason that Apple is forcing Appstore, and that's a big if, then Apple could still offer this "amazing service to customers", by contractually forcing companies to always also offer payments via Apple if payments are accepted elsewhere. If I can think of that in 30 seconds, then so can Apple. I'll let you draw your own conclusion.
    - coldpie 4y ago
      If the app is distributed via a non-Apple app store, then there is no contract between the app developer and Apple. What mechanism would Apple have to enforce that policy?

tootie 4y ago

So long as Android exists and users aren't strictly locked to the Play Store, I don't think an antitrust case would succeed.

adam_arthur 4y ago
Competitors to utilities exist too. Anti-trust is more nuanced than whether there’s a single party monopoly. And it certainly will apply here