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In Spain they're trying... but not really succeeding. > Whenever you have bigger countries you almost always have several levels of local governance - state, c
by spaniard89277 4y ago
In Spain they're trying... but not really succeeding.
> Whenever you have bigger countries you almost always have several levels of local governance - state, county or Land. These local governments often work with full autonomy and do not share date with the central government.
Here this is particularly relevant with healthcare. In some regions I get full coverage with my regional card with no questions asked. In others I have to go through hoops, and apparently they have no way of knowing my clinical history.
> In this case even solving such simple and basic thing as a centralised login solution is difficult since why would the owner of the centralised login solution should have knowledge of which citizen used which local governments service?
In Spain they tried to solve this with DNIe (your national identity card has a chip) and cetificates. Turns out it's quite difficult to make it work for 99% of the people, and even if you're tech savvy some government portals make it SO HARD that you just want to give up.
In a job I had before they used VMs with Windows XP and IExplorer for some services.
It improved a lot in last years, but the improvement is in areas where you have to pay money, they've got fast for that. Everything else is still a mess.
So in the end they'd come up with Cl@ave 365 with is a login/password solution you have to set up in person into some government office but it doesn't give you access to the full catalog of services, so you still need DNIe/Certificate.
The thing is, they still get the money from you. Nobody gets fired. Friendly contractors still get money. There's no rush to improve. They have no incentives.
But the worst thing is that they have this mess going on, and when old people goes to some government office they tell them to go online and do their own thing.
Pretty much like companies. Feels nice to pay taxes for a service isn't being provided.
There's people pushing to get this fixed, but the spanish state is... like an angry elephant.
- germandiago 4y agoEspaña es un desastre. Yo me he ido. Y va a ser difícil que vuelva. Vaya cómo está el tema... de pena todo.
- spaniard89277 4y agoPodría ser mucho peor, el problema no es lo mal que está, el problema es que en términos generales no mejora. Hay países en el este de Europa que claramente están progresando, sus estados, su economía, su sociedad. España cada vez está más dividida, pobre, y su sociedad más tensionada.
- germandiago 4y agoEso en parte es porque la gente se concentra en el mensaje polarizador de los políticos en vez de ocuparse de lo importante, que es de qué vamos a vivir y cómo y cómo vamos a reducir la deuda y pagar las pensiones o mejorar el mercado laboral. En cambio lo que oirás es que si los nacionalismos, que si LGTBQ o qué malos son unos o los otros en todas direcciones. No tengo nada en contra ni de esos grupos ni de indepes ni de nadie a nivel personal. Tan solo pienso que no es lo fundamental y toda esa gente se mete ahí para sacar tajada. Por eso no voto ni votaré.
- spaniard89277 4y agoEs un diagnóstico que comparto.
- mendigou 4y agoI just returned to Spain and went through this Cl@ve thing only to realize it cannot be used for a lot of "federal" (estatales) services nor for the "state" (comunidad autónoma) services. In Spain we have so many layers of bureaucracy that it's making me glad I left. Public notaries, the State Registry, and the Cadastre, are some of the most archaic institutions I've had the misfortune of dealing with. They even look at me like I'm an alien when I ask about digitized records (escrituras) or at least an index. On the other hand in Singapore I paid my taxes and my company taxes in literally less than 5 minutes. In Finland I had an integrated citizen experience. Even in Germany, despite the reputation, things were somewhat integrated between the tax authority and the social security.
- spaniard89277 4y agoIt depends a lot on whera re you. In Galicia is somewhat doable, for example, although they have their own service calle Chave instead of cl@ve (because why not?). The Catastro is now digital too, I managed to get a nota simple through their website. But yeah it's always a lot of friction. There's a clear lack of integration that makes everything difficult.