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Mean why? Staying in a foreign country is a privilege not a right.

by lzooz 4y ago

PartiallyTyped 4y ago
I mean, it's all imaginary lines carved eons ago by colonialists with blood for ink, but who cares.
- eddsh1994 4y ago
  Even Chimpanzee tribes have land borders that they protect. When do 'imaginary lines' just become 'lines', when they've been created and destroyed since pre-history? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
  - matai_kolila 4y ago
    Hm, “chimps do it” is not the stellar argument you think it is. Chimps throw feces, should we start doing that too?
    - eddsh1994 4y ago
      My point is while 'imaginary lines' seem theoretically interesting to point out when we discuss free movement, it's far too ingrained into animals to really change. Maybe in the distant future we will have planets as borders instead of country lines, but the lines will be there! Also any reason to point out Chimpanzees have wars including patrolling land borders and recon missions :)
      - matai_kolila 4y ago
        The main thing we have over animals is our ability to reason, so if anyone can overcome petty border disputes, it’s us. “Animals do it” is not a compelling argument for humans to participate in… well, anything. We know better!
  - PartiallyTyped 4y ago
    One would expect that a species that looks at the stars and longs to explore would have found ways to reconcile coexistance of tribes. Alas, we are but hairless Chimpanzees with speech and clothes.
welder 4y ago
Looks like they have 60 days to find a new job... I thought the grace period was shorter when I commented, but still that's not much time compared to other countries I've lived in. I'm from the USA. I think the way the US treats skilled workers is stupid. We want smart skilled people to immigrate, not make it hard on them. Can you imagine living with the threat of being kicked out lingering over you? I would never feel secure or set down real roots in a country that might kick me out in 60 days. Edit: Depending on the type of visa you're kicked out of the country much sooner than 60 days.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >I think the way the US treats skilled workers is stupid. It is stupid, but it's apparently how Americans want it. >We want smart skilled people to immigrate, not make it hard on them. No, you want that. American voters don't seem to agree with you, or at least, not enough of them to make a change. Meanwhile, in other countries, smart skilled people have a relatively easy time immigrating. I'm in Japan and it couldn't get much easier for skilled professionals than this. >Can you imagine living with the threat of being kicked out lingering over you? I would never feel secure or set down real roots in a country that might kick me out in 60 days. Yeah, me neither. I'm not sure why people want to torture themselves by going to such a country. There are other places looking for skilled professionals, and that make the immigration process pretty painless and easy. People need to get over this mythical idea of the US being some great welcoming haven for immigrants; it really isn't these days.
  - woooooo 4y ago
    You may be assuming more connection between voters and policy than actually happens in practice.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      Did you totally miss the Trump election? "Build the wall!"? The American voters (well, almost half of them) spoke loud and clear about their sentiments on immigration. If tech companies were in charge, the borders would be mostly open, especially (or perhaps only) for skilled professionals. Obviously, this isn't the case, so the corporate lobbyists are not the ones responsible for America's anti-skilled-immigrant policy, the American voters are. It doesn't get "fixed" because it's politically unpopular to do so.
schon 4y ago
If you spent a lot of time and money moving to a new country for work then you don't want to do all that again. In the USA, if you aren't a citizen and you have a working TN visa, then you literally have DAYS to find a new job or else you get deported. Thats why its important, because the current laws aren't realistic with finding a new job. They don't take into account the multiple interviews, the slow responses and callbacks. The entire process takes a long time.
matai_kolila 4y ago
What entities a person born in a nation to is resources more so then someone born outside of that nation? You can’t control where you’re born, why would that be then used to determine… well, anything about you?
- lzooz 4y ago
  Birthright. Parents, grandparents, etc. fought for their wealth, freedoms, rights, etc.
  - matai_kolila 4y ago
    None of which you did anything to earn.
    - lzooz 4y ago
      My ancestors earned it and they chose to give it to their descendance.
      - matai_kolila 4y ago
        Firstly no, they didn’t earn anything on their own, and secondly if they did make that choice it was selfish and not theirs to give away in the first place so their “ownership” here is a mistake on their part to believe they had. You can’t own progress, you can’t own a society, and you definitely can’t own the concept of freedom (can’t believe that isn’t clear).
        lzooz 4y ago
        Yes they earned their society because they worked on it, no it wasn't a selfish choice because the society was and is theirs, and yes you can own progress, a society, and freedom. Which is why half the world is monkeys flinging feces and some would kill to enter the first world.
        4y ago
KptMarchewa 4y ago
If you give someone that privilege then treat them as human. US prefers to hang that privilege upon people and treat them capriciously. Similar situation is in US work ethic, where CEO is something akin to a feudal lord.
- lzooz 4y ago
  So if a guest overstays their welcome and you kick them out of the house you are treating them as an animal?
  - blep_ 4y ago
    You're confusing vacations with immigration. If that "guest" has come to your house on the premise that they're going to live with you, and you kick them out, yes, that is bad. We even have laws about this, that's why there's a whole eviction process and it applies to people living with you as much as to normal tenants.
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      They come to work at a specific job when that relationship ends so does your access. It's like giving a home plumber access to your yard and then you move but he still hang around your yard.
      - blep_ 4y ago
        Plumbers do not come to your house with the intention of permanently living there.
        ipaddr 4y ago
        Neither are temporary workers on expiring VISAs. They may want that but that's not part of the agreement.
        throwaway2729 4y ago
renewiltord 4y ago
Seems a bit non-sequitur. Whether you're mean or not is not a factor of whether you are giving people their rights. Like, if I called you a doofus on this website every time I saw you, I'm probably being mean but not denying you your rights or anything.

Mean why? Staying in a foreign country is a privilege not a right.

by lzooz 4y ago

Mean why? Staying in a foreign country is a privilege not a right.

PartiallyTyped 4y ago

I mean, it's all imaginary lines carved eons ago by colonialists with blood for ink, but who cares.

eddsh1994 4y ago
Even Chimpanzee tribes have land borders that they protect. When do 'imaginary lines' just become 'lines', when they've been created and destroyed since pre-history? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
- matai_kolila 4y ago
  Hm, “chimps do it” is not the stellar argument you think it is. Chimps throw feces, should we start doing that too?
  - eddsh1994 4y ago
    My point is while 'imaginary lines' seem theoretically interesting to point out when we discuss free movement, it's far too ingrained into animals to really change. Maybe in the distant future we will have planets as borders instead of country lines, but the lines will be there! Also any reason to point out Chimpanzees have wars including patrolling land borders and recon missions :)
    - matai_kolila 4y ago
      The main thing we have over animals is our ability to reason, so if anyone can overcome petty border disputes, it’s us. “Animals do it” is not a compelling argument for humans to participate in… well, anything. We know better!
- PartiallyTyped 4y ago
  One would expect that a species that looks at the stars and longs to explore would have found ways to reconcile coexistance of tribes. Alas, we are but hairless Chimpanzees with speech and clothes.

welder 4y ago

Looks like they have 60 days to find a new job... I thought the grace period was shorter when I commented, but still that's not much time compared to other countries I've lived in. I'm from the USA. I think the way the US treats skilled workers is stupid. We want smart skilled people to immigrate, not make it hard on them. Can you imagine living with the threat of being kicked out lingering over you? I would never feel secure or set down real roots in a country that might kick me out in 60 days. Edit: Depending on the type of visa you're kicked out of the country much sooner than 60 days.

midoridensha 4y ago
>I think the way the US treats skilled workers is stupid. It is stupid, but it's apparently how Americans want it. >We want smart skilled people to immigrate, not make it hard on them. No, you want that. American voters don't seem to agree with you, or at least, not enough of them to make a change. Meanwhile, in other countries, smart skilled people have a relatively easy time immigrating. I'm in Japan and it couldn't get much easier for skilled professionals than this. >Can you imagine living with the threat of being kicked out lingering over you? I would never feel secure or set down real roots in a country that might kick me out in 60 days. Yeah, me neither. I'm not sure why people want to torture themselves by going to such a country. There are other places looking for skilled professionals, and that make the immigration process pretty painless and easy. People need to get over this mythical idea of the US being some great welcoming haven for immigrants; it really isn't these days.
- woooooo 4y ago
  You may be assuming more connection between voters and policy than actually happens in practice.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    Did you totally miss the Trump election? "Build the wall!"? The American voters (well, almost half of them) spoke loud and clear about their sentiments on immigration. If tech companies were in charge, the borders would be mostly open, especially (or perhaps only) for skilled professionals. Obviously, this isn't the case, so the corporate lobbyists are not the ones responsible for America's anti-skilled-immigrant policy, the American voters are. It doesn't get "fixed" because it's politically unpopular to do so.

schon 4y ago

If you spent a lot of time and money moving to a new country for work then you don't want to do all that again. In the USA, if you aren't a citizen and you have a working TN visa, then you literally have DAYS to find a new job or else you get deported. Thats why its important, because the current laws aren't realistic with finding a new job. They don't take into account the multiple interviews, the slow responses and callbacks. The entire process takes a long time.

matai_kolila 4y ago

What entities a person born in a nation to is resources more so then someone born outside of that nation? You can’t control where you’re born, why would that be then used to determine… well, anything about you?

lzooz 4y ago
Birthright. Parents, grandparents, etc. fought for their wealth, freedoms, rights, etc.
- matai_kolila 4y ago
  None of which you did anything to earn.
  - lzooz 4y ago
    My ancestors earned it and they chose to give it to their descendance.
    - matai_kolila 4y ago
      Firstly no, they didn’t earn anything on their own, and secondly if they did make that choice it was selfish and not theirs to give away in the first place so their “ownership” here is a mistake on their part to believe they had. You can’t own progress, you can’t own a society, and you definitely can’t own the concept of freedom (can’t believe that isn’t clear).
      - lzooz 4y ago
        Yes they earned their society because they worked on it, no it wasn't a selfish choice because the society was and is theirs, and yes you can own progress, a society, and freedom. Which is why half the world is monkeys flinging feces and some would kill to enter the first world.
        4y ago

KptMarchewa 4y ago

If you give someone that privilege then treat them as human. US prefers to hang that privilege upon people and treat them capriciously. Similar situation is in US work ethic, where CEO is something akin to a feudal lord.

lzooz 4y ago
So if a guest overstays their welcome and you kick them out of the house you are treating them as an animal?
- blep_ 4y ago
  You're confusing vacations with immigration. If that "guest" has come to your house on the premise that they're going to live with you, and you kick them out, yes, that is bad. We even have laws about this, that's why there's a whole eviction process and it applies to people living with you as much as to normal tenants.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    They come to work at a specific job when that relationship ends so does your access. It's like giving a home plumber access to your yard and then you move but he still hang around your yard.
    - blep_ 4y ago
      Plumbers do not come to your house with the intention of permanently living there.
      - ipaddr 4y ago
        Neither are temporary workers on expiring VISAs. They may want that but that's not part of the agreement.
        throwaway2729 4y ago

renewiltord 4y ago

Seems a bit non-sequitur. Whether you're mean or not is not a factor of whether you are giving people their rights. Like, if I called you a doofus on this website every time I saw you, I'm probably being mean but not denying you your rights or anything.