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I came to similar conclusion. My children go to an elementary school in Canada and there is bullying even in good schools. The things that these little kids do

I came to similar conclusion. My children go to an elementary school in Canada and there is bullying even in good schools. The things that these little kids do is incomprehensible to me. I went to elementary school in USSR and I never saw what my children experience in Canada(at least I don't remember it, but I do know that the schools in USSR had bullying issues with teenagers). Is it because children have too much freedom in school, innatentive/overworked teachers? My wife tends to think it's the food(sugars) and TV/computer games (even first graders spend significant chunks of their free time playing Minecraft and other games). Is it because of playdates culture and not being free to play on the street with neighbours after school which helps socializing kids?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
trgn 4y ago
Play dates really create needless friction because they don't allow children to click organically. The restoration of the public realm, making it safe for children, is the most pressing challenge for america.
Der_Einzige 4y ago
Let's be honest, playing Minecraft is more likely to be the reason you're bullied, instead of being the source of bullying. Well, unless you count getting griefed on MC as bullying...
quacked 4y ago
> Is it because of playdates culture and not being free to play on the street with neighbours after school which helps socializing kids? All children need to be "socialized", which means "taught the local method of the art of civilization". Currently in the western world there IS no "local method of the art of civilization". There's barely even a "local people". Most people grow up around transplants and whirling hodgepodge of rapidly-evolving ethno-social practices that never comes close to stabilizing on a single, repeatable way of life. The US's and Canada's failures to raise up kids to behave a certain way is due to the fact that the modern western world is in a local period of flux/chaos. Children rarely see their full-time working parents and live in environments where they have little freedom and few trustworthy allies that will remain with them throughout their whole lives. The several people I know who grew up in the USSR did not experience this, and while they experienced shortages, authoritarianism, and poverty, they also experienced very intensely local community with people who they understood and expected to live the same way. (This broke down across ethnic lines, of course.) The necessary fixes are far more pervasive and difficult than many people realize, and mostly start with "fixing the adults" rather than "fixing the kids". Bullying is a deeply primal instinct, with the end result of establishing a social hierarchy with the most powerful and violent on top and people who will listen to them and provide goods and services on the bottom. The reason that adults who commit crimes end up in prison is that modern western governments keep a really well-armed and nasty gang on a leash (police) and have a system to deal with the bullies who don't learn how to keep their bullying in line with social acceptability. (For instance, you can emotionally torture an employee into depression, but you can't punch them in the face.) I believe that the bullying we're seeing children do now is closer to status-jockeying in a post-civilization world than as a consequence of our current society's setup. They're trying to establish hierarchies and social norms for themselves, because they've never observed or been taught any.
yamtaddle 4y ago
Dunno about Canada, but in the US schools have very limited options for dealing with problem kids, and class sizes are way bigger than they'd be if we really wanted every kid to have a great education (we would be aiming for about half what they are now, in that case)—more social problems is one consequence of that. If we could "sacrifice" the top ~10% most-disruptive students—just keep them out of the ordinary classrooms—it'd improve everyone else's experience and ultimate educational attainment immensely. My wife used to be a teacher and days when the right couple kids both happened to be sick, all the lessons got done faster than the time she'd allotted, giving time to cover bonus material, and she said you could just feel how much more relaxed and jovial the atmosphere was, and could see it on the kids' faces. Consider how much benefit it would convey if that were every day and those effects could compound over years. First person who figures out a way to do that that doesn't condemn the 10%ers who actually have a chance of reforming, and that's palatable to constituents, will have done more for US education than anyone else has in a century, probably.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

trgn 4y ago

Play dates really create needless friction because they don't allow children to click organically. The restoration of the public realm, making it safe for children, is the most pressing challenge for america.

Der_Einzige 4y ago

Let's be honest, playing Minecraft is more likely to be the reason you're bullied, instead of being the source of bullying. Well, unless you count getting griefed on MC as bullying...

quacked 4y ago

> Is it because of playdates culture and not being free to play on the street with neighbours after school which helps socializing kids? All children need to be "socialized", which means "taught the local method of the art of civilization". Currently in the western world there IS no "local method of the art of civilization". There's barely even a "local people". Most people grow up around transplants and whirling hodgepodge of rapidly-evolving ethno-social practices that never comes close to stabilizing on a single, repeatable way of life. The US's and Canada's failures to raise up kids to behave a certain way is due to the fact that the modern western world is in a local period of flux/chaos. Children rarely see their full-time working parents and live in environments where they have little freedom and few trustworthy allies that will remain with them throughout their whole lives. The several people I know who grew up in the USSR did not experience this, and while they experienced shortages, authoritarianism, and poverty, they also experienced very intensely local community with people who they understood and expected to live the same way. (This broke down across ethnic lines, of course.) The necessary fixes are far more pervasive and difficult than many people realize, and mostly start with "fixing the adults" rather than "fixing the kids". Bullying is a deeply primal instinct, with the end result of establishing a social hierarchy with the most powerful and violent on top and people who will listen to them and provide goods and services on the bottom. The reason that adults who commit crimes end up in prison is that modern western governments keep a really well-armed and nasty gang on a leash (police) and have a system to deal with the bullies who don't learn how to keep their bullying in line with social acceptability. (For instance, you can emotionally torture an employee into depression, but you can't punch them in the face.) I believe that the bullying we're seeing children do now is closer to status-jockeying in a post-civilization world than as a consequence of our current society's setup. They're trying to establish hierarchies and social norms for themselves, because they've never observed or been taught any.

yamtaddle 4y ago

Dunno about Canada, but in the US schools have very limited options for dealing with problem kids, and class sizes are way bigger than they'd be if we really wanted every kid to have a great education (we would be aiming for about half what they are now, in that case)—more social problems is one consequence of that. If we could "sacrifice" the top ~10% most-disruptive students—just keep them out of the ordinary classrooms—it'd improve everyone else's experience and ultimate educational attainment immensely. My wife used to be a teacher and days when the right couple kids both happened to be sick, all the lessons got done faster than the time she'd allotted, giving time to cover bonus material, and she said you could just feel how much more relaxed and jovial the atmosphere was, and could see it on the kids' faces. Consider how much benefit it would convey if that were every day and those effects could compound over years. First person who figures out a way to do that that doesn't condemn the 10%ers who actually have a chance of reforming, and that's palatable to constituents, will have done more for US education than anyone else has in a century, probably.