7 ms·

“Immigration support: We will set the termination date for March 1, 2023, giving those with visa applications (and a desire to stay in the US) as much time as p

“Immigration support: We will set the termination date for March 1, 2023, giving those with visa applications (and a desire to stay in the US) as much time as possible to find a new job” Every company should do this to help employees on H1B that are laid off. The standard terms are one of the horrific things about US immigration policy; suddenly uprooting families including kids attending school in the US.

willcipriano 4y ago
That's by design, the H1B program is similar to illegal immigration like that. Create a underclass of workers that are more vulnerable with less rights and beat the domestic workers over the head with them to drive down wages.
- boringg 4y ago
  While that might be what's happening in some regards - it definitely wasn't by design. Your giving too much credit to policy builders and far too much weight to cynicism. Occam's razor can probably finesse your logic on this one. You are adding too much complexity to the origin's of H1B to push your narrative.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    When the consequences are trivially visible and remain for this long, then it becomes by design by way of inaction by the people who make the rules.
    - boringg 4y ago
      Again Occam's razor. Your are applying to much to it. There's been no push to overhaul H1B as it has little political value for the politicians. I see what people are frustrated about especially those on H1B but I don't think it is some cynical reason by the politicians - its more that it has little to gain for them. It's a non-voting group of people and it isn't a large enough issue for any of their voting base. It is not some weird theory about keeping H1B an underclass and putting downwards pressure on domestic employees.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        > its more that it has little to gain for them. But it will cause them a loss from the big donors that do benefit from H1-B people having less negotiating power, which is why the cynicism is warranted. “Occam’s razor” is for situations where something is happening unintentionally. There exists intention here, however indirect.
        boringg 4y ago
        Occam's razor: "It is generally understood in the sense that with competing theories or explanations, the simpler one, for example a model with fewer parameters, is to be preferred."
- dkarl 4y ago
  The mass of people who provided popular, democratic support for visa restrictions were motivated by the nativist concern of protecting American workers from foreign competition. You can always attribute popular sentiment to mustache-twirling elites pulling the people's puppet strings, but there's no getting around the widespread, populist fear that American workers would lose their jobs to foreign, racial others who were inhumanly smart and/or inhumanly hard-working and/or willing to live in inhuman conditions. Liberal economic elites would have preferred unrestricted, laissez-faire access to technically skilled immigrant labor rather than being forced to deal with the caps, lotteries, and bureaucracy associated with the H1B program.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > The mass of people who provided popular, democratic support for visa restrictions were motivated by the nativist concern of protecting American workers from foreign competition. Why would they support H1-B then? It is literally increasing supply of workers who have less negotiating power than the “mass of people” I presume you are referring to. Surely they would be better off with immigrants whose legal status was not tied to employers.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      A common refrain you will hear is "Americans don't want to do those jobs", but what that misses is if you gave a immigrant the same rights and opportunities as a citizen they won't want to do that job either (at the price and on the terms offered). Relatively open ended immigration programs with minimal restrictions are defensible, but this caste system is not.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        I am not sure how that is related, but the last part of that phrase is often left out. “Americans do not want to do those jobs at a certain price” >Relatively open ended immigration programs with minimal restrictions are defensible, but this caste system is not. Yes, that was my point. The only population benefiting from H1-Bs reduced negotiating power due to their immigration rules is business owners.
throwayyy479087 4y ago
fwiw, this is because H1B has evolved far from its initial purpose. Most tech H1Bs really should be on EB-1A, which has more reasonable regs.
dncornholio 4y ago
Ugh.. It shouldn't even need to be said.. companies überhaupt shouldn't be doing mass lay-offs..
pastor_bob 4y ago
So long as it is applied evenly to all laid off. Personally, I find the health benefits extension to be much more meaningful
giaour 4y ago
I admire this approach, but I am a bit worried that making big public announcements of doing so will trigger a crackdown (especially if Stephen Miller or his ilk are ever in charge of US immigration policy again).

willcipriano 4y ago

That's by design, the H1B program is similar to illegal immigration like that. Create a underclass of workers that are more vulnerable with less rights and beat the domestic workers over the head with them to drive down wages.

boringg 4y ago
While that might be what's happening in some regards - it definitely wasn't by design. Your giving too much credit to policy builders and far too much weight to cynicism. Occam's razor can probably finesse your logic on this one. You are adding too much complexity to the origin's of H1B to push your narrative.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  When the consequences are trivially visible and remain for this long, then it becomes by design by way of inaction by the people who make the rules.
  - boringg 4y ago
    Again Occam's razor. Your are applying to much to it. There's been no push to overhaul H1B as it has little political value for the politicians. I see what people are frustrated about especially those on H1B but I don't think it is some cynical reason by the politicians - its more that it has little to gain for them. It's a non-voting group of people and it isn't a large enough issue for any of their voting base. It is not some weird theory about keeping H1B an underclass and putting downwards pressure on domestic employees.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      > its more that it has little to gain for them. But it will cause them a loss from the big donors that do benefit from H1-B people having less negotiating power, which is why the cynicism is warranted. “Occam’s razor” is for situations where something is happening unintentionally. There exists intention here, however indirect.
      - boringg 4y ago
        Occam's razor: "It is generally understood in the sense that with competing theories or explanations, the simpler one, for example a model with fewer parameters, is to be preferred."
dkarl 4y ago
The mass of people who provided popular, democratic support for visa restrictions were motivated by the nativist concern of protecting American workers from foreign competition. You can always attribute popular sentiment to mustache-twirling elites pulling the people's puppet strings, but there's no getting around the widespread, populist fear that American workers would lose their jobs to foreign, racial others who were inhumanly smart and/or inhumanly hard-working and/or willing to live in inhuman conditions. Liberal economic elites would have preferred unrestricted, laissez-faire access to technically skilled immigrant labor rather than being forced to deal with the caps, lotteries, and bureaucracy associated with the H1B program.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  > The mass of people who provided popular, democratic support for visa restrictions were motivated by the nativist concern of protecting American workers from foreign competition. Why would they support H1-B then? It is literally increasing supply of workers who have less negotiating power than the “mass of people” I presume you are referring to. Surely they would be better off with immigrants whose legal status was not tied to employers.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    A common refrain you will hear is "Americans don't want to do those jobs", but what that misses is if you gave a immigrant the same rights and opportunities as a citizen they won't want to do that job either (at the price and on the terms offered). Relatively open ended immigration programs with minimal restrictions are defensible, but this caste system is not.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      I am not sure how that is related, but the last part of that phrase is often left out. “Americans do not want to do those jobs at a certain price” >Relatively open ended immigration programs with minimal restrictions are defensible, but this caste system is not. Yes, that was my point. The only population benefiting from H1-Bs reduced negotiating power due to their immigration rules is business owners.

throwayyy479087 4y ago

fwiw, this is because H1B has evolved far from its initial purpose. Most tech H1Bs really should be on EB-1A, which has more reasonable regs.

dncornholio 4y ago

Ugh.. It shouldn't even need to be said.. companies überhaupt shouldn't be doing mass lay-offs..

pastor_bob 4y ago

So long as it is applied evenly to all laid off. Personally, I find the health benefits extension to be much more meaningful

giaour 4y ago

I admire this approach, but I am a bit worried that making big public announcements of doing so will trigger a crackdown (especially if Stephen Miller or his ilk are ever in charge of US immigration policy again).