4 ms·

By 'journalist' are you referring to the recent firebombing of the house of YouTube personalty friendlyjordies? Love the guy, but it sounds like you're implyin

By 'journalist' are you referring to the recent firebombing of the house of YouTube personalty friendlyjordies? Love the guy, but it sounds like you're implying this is an example of an attack on independent journalism, and think the government is involved? Perhaps worth reviewing the reliability /agenda of your news sources?

dylan604 4y ago
Would it require it to have gov't involvement to be bad? Let's say that the leader of a country stood up on a stage during a speech (which was preceded by years of pro-violence rhetoric) that was very suggestive of committing acts of violence. Would that be gov't involvement even if it the violence was actually perpetrated by private citizens?
- ellrob88 4y ago
  No, I don't think the government needs to be directly involved for it to be considered bad. The example you describe sounds very bad to me. But my comment was questioning OP's suggestion that the incident was tied to authoritarianism.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    You do realize I wasn't describing a hypothetical situation, right?
    - ellrob88 4y ago
      I kinda assumed you were referring to Trump (?) But my point all along has been that "youtube personality getting house firebombed" != "ridiculous authoritarianism in Australia". If you are arguing against this point, I may need you to explain further.
      - dylan604 4y ago
        I don't follow Australian politics closely, so what has/hasn't been said by its leaders is unknown to me. I was merely suggesting that if a leader has insinuated that something like that wouldn't be a bad idea, then some might say you now how a gov't official involved.
robswc 4y ago
No, didn't mean the Gov did it... they just did a ton of shady stuff that lead up to that. It does raise the question of _who_ would care enough to firebomb his house though... I mean, just a few months ago a local gov official literally stabbed a reporter to death for a hell of a lot less. https://cpj.org/2022/09/police-arrest-local-official-suspected-of-killing-las-vegas-reporter-jeff-german/ https://cpj.org/2022/09/police-arrest-local-official-suspect... So... stranger things have happened.
- ellrob88 4y ago
  OK, but you did seem to be holding the firebombing incident up as an example of Australia's "ridiculous authoritarianism". I'm just not quite seeing how it shows authoritarianism if you weren't suggesting government involvement? Also your original comment sounds like you're saying Aus and UK are worse than the US on this front, but the worst case example you've just provided is from the US.
  - robswc 4y ago
    Well, a journalist goes after a politician for corruption and then his house is firebombed... The government itself doesn't have to "organize" that but a corrupt politician with friends certainly could. >Aus and UK are worse than the US on this front They are. Just look at how people were treated during COVID and how you can literally get arrested for tweeting "offensive content." That wouldn't happen in the US. And yes, the example shows that it is not above a politician to literally kill a journalist with their own hands because their corruption is being uncovered. I guess in this case, the dude unfortunately succeeded but there's still two attempted murders and arson cases in AUS over a journalist uncovering corruption. Seems much more organized and deeper than a dude singlehandedly breaking into a house to do such things.
Sholmesy 4y ago
Given that his producer was arrested by what amounts to Australia's secret police, at the request of the then deputy premier, I'm not certain that it's easy to dismiss. There's been a pretty strong condemnation of the way that situation was handled, both in the political and legal sphere, that wrong-doing took place. As for the firebombing, to me that feels much more like ClubsNSW/Bikey gang related hush tactics. The whole thing is surreal

dylan604 4y ago

Would it require it to have gov't involvement to be bad? Let's say that the leader of a country stood up on a stage during a speech (which was preceded by years of pro-violence rhetoric) that was very suggestive of committing acts of violence. Would that be gov't involvement even if it the violence was actually perpetrated by private citizens?

ellrob88 4y ago
No, I don't think the government needs to be directly involved for it to be considered bad. The example you describe sounds very bad to me. But my comment was questioning OP's suggestion that the incident was tied to authoritarianism.
- dylan604 4y ago
  You do realize I wasn't describing a hypothetical situation, right?
  - ellrob88 4y ago
    I kinda assumed you were referring to Trump (?) But my point all along has been that "youtube personality getting house firebombed" != "ridiculous authoritarianism in Australia". If you are arguing against this point, I may need you to explain further.
    - dylan604 4y ago
      I don't follow Australian politics closely, so what has/hasn't been said by its leaders is unknown to me. I was merely suggesting that if a leader has insinuated that something like that wouldn't be a bad idea, then some might say you now how a gov't official involved.

robswc 4y ago

No, didn't mean the Gov did it... they just did a ton of shady stuff that lead up to that. It does raise the question of _who_ would care enough to firebomb his house though... I mean, just a few months ago a local gov official literally stabbed a reporter to death for a hell of a lot less. https://cpj.org/2022/09/police-arrest-local-official-suspected-of-killing-las-vegas-reporter-jeff-german/ https://cpj.org/2022/09/police-arrest-local-official-suspect... So... stranger things have happened.

ellrob88 4y ago
OK, but you did seem to be holding the firebombing incident up as an example of Australia's "ridiculous authoritarianism". I'm just not quite seeing how it shows authoritarianism if you weren't suggesting government involvement? Also your original comment sounds like you're saying Aus and UK are worse than the US on this front, but the worst case example you've just provided is from the US.
- robswc 4y ago
  Well, a journalist goes after a politician for corruption and then his house is firebombed... The government itself doesn't have to "organize" that but a corrupt politician with friends certainly could. >Aus and UK are worse than the US on this front They are. Just look at how people were treated during COVID and how you can literally get arrested for tweeting "offensive content." That wouldn't happen in the US. And yes, the example shows that it is not above a politician to literally kill a journalist with their own hands because their corruption is being uncovered. I guess in this case, the dude unfortunately succeeded but there's still two attempted murders and arson cases in AUS over a journalist uncovering corruption. Seems much more organized and deeper than a dude singlehandedly breaking into a house to do such things.

Sholmesy 4y ago

Given that his producer was arrested by what amounts to Australia's secret police, at the request of the then deputy premier, I'm not certain that it's easy to dismiss. There's been a pretty strong condemnation of the way that situation was handled, both in the political and legal sphere, that wrong-doing took place. As for the firebombing, to me that feels much more like ClubsNSW/Bikey gang related hush tactics. The whole thing is surreal