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I think it's cool to be so rich and big and powerful you can let this sort of thing happen and not even worry about it. Didn't even make the news (first I'm hea

I think it's cool to be so rich and big and powerful you can let this sort of thing happen and not even worry about it. Didn't even make the news (first I'm hearing of it). It is an interesting situation where capitalism makes certain operations against it really, really cheap for an adversary. Can markets price in this sort of thing? Is there some sort of "tag" a company can/should get to make it vastly more expensive to an adversary nation to acquire? Kind of like a reverse carbon credit. Regarding the private IP holder who sold. It was certainly in the financial interest of the IP holder to do the deal! But are we not allowed to criticize the sellers of these companies, who sold to China of their own free will, with some knowledge, presumably, of what would happen? But it was a good exit! Most people aren't so lucky. Is that the correct way to look at it? Do individuals who engage in deals like this deserve criticism for an ethical breach, if not a legal one?

nickpinkston 4y ago
Yea, I think it's less helpful to criticize the individuals involved, and more that they shouldn't be the ones making the decision. It should be blocked by regulators. The problem is that for too long the bankers/C-suite crowd have lobbied their gov'ts to turn a blind eye to this behavior, but now we're realizing that this order cannot hold, and we must finally begin defending ourselves. Europe is under more pressure than the US because they're more export driven, and their biggest partner is usually China. They buy a lot of German cars, French/Italian luxury goods, etc. Whereas the US is actually China's biggest demand source, so it's flipped, and slowly firms I'm seeing are diversifying production throughout Asia and beyond to reduce Chinese risk from their supply chains.
- piva00 4y ago
  > Whereas the US is actually China's biggest demand source > China Exports to United States was US$577.13 Billion during 2021 > European Union Imports from China was US$557.31 Billion during 2021 I believe this is pretty even so invalidates a bit your point. > European Union Exports to China was US$260.61 Billion during 2021 > In 2021, the value of the U.S. exports to China amounted to approximately 151.07 billion U.S. dollars This one holds more truth, it's a US$ 90B difference between exports from the USA and the EU into China.
  - nickpinkston 4y ago
    I don't count the EU as a single trading block because it doesn't have the internal coherence compared to the US. This makes it easier for the US to make a consistent policy to China compared to the high variance of interests in European countries, which consistently are used by outsiders to drive wedges in between the major EU states. The US doesn't allow (in theory...) states/cities to be able to conduct foreign policy, so they don't have as much leverage. TL;DR: I stand by my statements on US being China's largest trade partner.
    - piva00 4y ago
      > I don't count the EU as a single trading block because it doesn't have the internal coherence compared to the US. I don't understand what you mean by this, it's a single trading block, if required the EU as a whole will implement tariffs because if each country could pick and choose then the whole free-trade thing would be pointless, it'd be an eternal race to the bottom for which country would offer a better agreement to trade with China. Or do you mean that because the EU as a bloc has different interests in foreign policy that then it can't take a single unified decision if needed? In that case, the USA surely has states influencing its foreign policy depending on their economy of exports to foreign countries, it's normal politics to defend the interests of your voting base and if those are dependent on exports to a specific country of course there's pressure on the Federal government's foreign policy...
      - nickpinkston 4y ago
        More the latter, re: the EU's governance structure + higher member diversity (econ, military, culture, etc.) leads to a less coherent foreign policy than for the US. So while there are plenty of state-based influence games being played in the US, they aren't as big an issue for the US vs. the EU. TL;DR: There are some similarities, but on balance Europe is less united and countries like China/Russia make use of them well.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

nickpinkston 4y ago

Yea, I think it's less helpful to criticize the individuals involved, and more that they shouldn't be the ones making the decision. It should be blocked by regulators. The problem is that for too long the bankers/C-suite crowd have lobbied their gov'ts to turn a blind eye to this behavior, but now we're realizing that this order cannot hold, and we must finally begin defending ourselves. Europe is under more pressure than the US because they're more export driven, and their biggest partner is usually China. They buy a lot of German cars, French/Italian luxury goods, etc. Whereas the US is actually China's biggest demand source, so it's flipped, and slowly firms I'm seeing are diversifying production throughout Asia and beyond to reduce Chinese risk from their supply chains.

piva00 4y ago
> Whereas the US is actually China's biggest demand source > China Exports to United States was US$577.13 Billion during 2021 > European Union Imports from China was US$557.31 Billion during 2021 I believe this is pretty even so invalidates a bit your point. > European Union Exports to China was US$260.61 Billion during 2021 > In 2021, the value of the U.S. exports to China amounted to approximately 151.07 billion U.S. dollars This one holds more truth, it's a US$ 90B difference between exports from the USA and the EU into China.
- nickpinkston 4y ago
  I don't count the EU as a single trading block because it doesn't have the internal coherence compared to the US. This makes it easier for the US to make a consistent policy to China compared to the high variance of interests in European countries, which consistently are used by outsiders to drive wedges in between the major EU states. The US doesn't allow (in theory...) states/cities to be able to conduct foreign policy, so they don't have as much leverage. TL;DR: I stand by my statements on US being China's largest trade partner.
  - piva00 4y ago
    > I don't count the EU as a single trading block because it doesn't have the internal coherence compared to the US. I don't understand what you mean by this, it's a single trading block, if required the EU as a whole will implement tariffs because if each country could pick and choose then the whole free-trade thing would be pointless, it'd be an eternal race to the bottom for which country would offer a better agreement to trade with China. Or do you mean that because the EU as a bloc has different interests in foreign policy that then it can't take a single unified decision if needed? In that case, the USA surely has states influencing its foreign policy depending on their economy of exports to foreign countries, it's normal politics to defend the interests of your voting base and if those are dependent on exports to a specific country of course there's pressure on the Federal government's foreign policy...
    - nickpinkston 4y ago
      More the latter, re: the EU's governance structure + higher member diversity (econ, military, culture, etc.) leads to a less coherent foreign policy than for the US. So while there are plenty of state-based influence games being played in the US, they aren't as big an issue for the US vs. the EU. TL;DR: There are some similarities, but on balance Europe is less united and countries like China/Russia make use of them well.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]