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> VS Code remote editing blows TRAMP out of the water I think it is not that black & white. Recently I've used tramp to dial into a server via SSH and there in

> VS Code remote editing blows TRAMP out of the water I think it is not that black & white. Recently I've used tramp to dial into a server via SSH and there into a docker container and directly edit files inside. I don't think VSCode can do the same inside a shell it starts. Sure it may be able to open an SSH shell and then from there you might be able to type in some docker exec command. But that is not the same as tramp into docker container on a remote host via SSH for the following reasons: When I use keyboard shortcuts from inside that tramp shell, Emacs understands, that it happens inside the tramp context and for example will only show me files inside that docker container, when I do a find-file. Should I decide to run an rgrep from that context, it will show me results in that context. If I click the findings of that rgrep, it will probably open the findings, which are on the remote host inside the docker container. If I open dired from the tramp context, I will see files from that context, not files on my own machine. Context is the magic here. This level of integration is missing from VSCode. VSCode replicates part of these things, but things are not integrated. Want to ssh into a server? OK can do. Want to open files? OK here are your files from your own machine. It does not understand, that it should use the generic action of showing available files in the context of the opened SSH session. This might be a consequence of things being less coupled with keyboard workflow. When I use a mouse to click some menu items, it is not clear to VSCode in which opened tab/buffer that action should be performed. When I press a keyboard shortcut in Emacs, there will be a buffer (or mini buffer, or whatever) which has the focus and does not have to lose the focus, because I am not using the mouse to click outside of it. Things which are taken for granted in Emacs (all that integration and generic actions, which work anywhere) do not seem to exist in VSCode. Maybe most people are not even aware of how generic actions like opening a file could be integrated, because they have never seen it like it is in Emacs. On the other hand, VSCode might have a more fluent experience for when you do not want to do anything more complex than SSH into a server and might be speedier at those simpler workflows. There are probably well paid engineers at MS, who try to make things run smoothly when the shell is an SSH session on a remote server. I have not benchmarked this. Just a guess.

kfajdsl 4y ago
> Want to open files? OK here are your files from your own machine. It does not understand, that it should use the generic action of showing available files in the context of the opened SSH session. Are you sure? If I launch a remote session window and click open file/folder, it's on the remote (either SSH or docker for my workflows). VS Code runs a server on the remote with any plugins (including LSP servers) installed with it. This is as opposed to Emacs, which AFAIK does not have a server on the remote and instead interacts with the remote directly using SSH (or `docker exec`, etc). Note, you still need to have any LSP servers installed on the remote if you want that capability. I would argue that VS Code's remote editing experience feels more integrated than Emacs with TRAMP; I've had issues before where something is more difficult to do over TRAMP than locally, but I've never had that with VS Code. You're right though, "blows out of the water" is a stretch, I just have fights with TRAMP fresh in my head haha In terms of making editing on a remote seem just like editing locally, both VS Code and TRAMP are capable, I just find VS Code remote editing to be much more user friendly. It just works with little to no configuration.
- zelphirkalt 4y ago
  > Are you sure? If I launch a remote session window and click open file/folder, it's on the remote (either SSH or docker for my workflows). I am not sure about dedicated extra windows. I've not seen it being done in an ad-hoc started shell, inside a normal VSCode editor instance, at least. If it is a new windows (new process) it is not really the same, as the new instance is then dedicated to being a remote session one. With Emacs one does not have to start multiple instances to get things done, but does everything out of the same instance. Whenever I see people closing and opening VSCode instances, I feel like: "Why did you close that?! Can't you just do things in your editor without frequently closing and opening it again?" It feels like an inefficient process. "I can't do it in this instance, I need to close it and open a new one from another working directory.". I can only speak from what I have observed people doing when screensharing. Maybe other people do it differently or more efficiently. > VS Code runs a server on the remote with any plugins (including LSP servers) installed with it. This is as opposed to Emacs, which AFAIK does not have a server on the remote and instead interacts with the remote directly using SSH (or `docker exec`, etc). Note, you still need to have any LSP servers installed on the remote if you want that capability. Emacs has had a server program since ages. You can run Emacs as a server, for example on a remote host, or on your local machine and when you start a GUI or non-GUI Emacs, start in client mode, to connect to the Emacs server. Your Emacs client will benefit from whatever you have set up the Emacs server to do. If your Emacs server has LSP stuff set up, you will be able to use it in your Emacs client. For merely accessing a remote via SSH and accessing files in it, editing them and saving them, Emacs truly does not need any server. It channels anything one does through the SSH connection and "commits" to the remote's filesystem. I agree though, sometimes tramp can be a hassle. It could be better and better documented as well.

kfajdsl 4y ago

> Want to open files? OK here are your files from your own machine. It does not understand, that it should use the generic action of showing available files in the context of the opened SSH session. Are you sure? If I launch a remote session window and click open file/folder, it's on the remote (either SSH or docker for my workflows). VS Code runs a server on the remote with any plugins (including LSP servers) installed with it. This is as opposed to Emacs, which AFAIK does not have a server on the remote and instead interacts with the remote directly using SSH (or `docker exec`, etc). Note, you still need to have any LSP servers installed on the remote if you want that capability. I would argue that VS Code's remote editing experience feels more integrated than Emacs with TRAMP; I've had issues before where something is more difficult to do over TRAMP than locally, but I've never had that with VS Code. You're right though, "blows out of the water" is a stretch, I just have fights with TRAMP fresh in my head haha In terms of making editing on a remote seem just like editing locally, both VS Code and TRAMP are capable, I just find VS Code remote editing to be much more user friendly. It just works with little to no configuration.

zelphirkalt 4y ago
> Are you sure? If I launch a remote session window and click open file/folder, it's on the remote (either SSH or docker for my workflows). I am not sure about dedicated extra windows. I've not seen it being done in an ad-hoc started shell, inside a normal VSCode editor instance, at least. If it is a new windows (new process) it is not really the same, as the new instance is then dedicated to being a remote session one. With Emacs one does not have to start multiple instances to get things done, but does everything out of the same instance. Whenever I see people closing and opening VSCode instances, I feel like: "Why did you close that?! Can't you just do things in your editor without frequently closing and opening it again?" It feels like an inefficient process. "I can't do it in this instance, I need to close it and open a new one from another working directory.". I can only speak from what I have observed people doing when screensharing. Maybe other people do it differently or more efficiently. > VS Code runs a server on the remote with any plugins (including LSP servers) installed with it. This is as opposed to Emacs, which AFAIK does not have a server on the remote and instead interacts with the remote directly using SSH (or `docker exec`, etc). Note, you still need to have any LSP servers installed on the remote if you want that capability. Emacs has had a server program since ages. You can run Emacs as a server, for example on a remote host, or on your local machine and when you start a GUI or non-GUI Emacs, start in client mode, to connect to the Emacs server. Your Emacs client will benefit from whatever you have set up the Emacs server to do. If your Emacs server has LSP stuff set up, you will be able to use it in your Emacs client. For merely accessing a remote via SSH and accessing files in it, editing them and saving them, Emacs truly does not need any server. It channels anything one does through the SSH connection and "commits" to the remote's filesystem. I agree though, sometimes tramp can be a hassle. It could be better and better documented as well.