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> the point at which EVs are economically cheaper than gas From a fueling standpoint, EVs are already far cheaper than gas. So much so that many people are al

> the point at which EVs are economically cheaper than gas From a fueling standpoint, EVs are already far cheaper than gas. So much so that many people are already jumping to EVs despite having to make compromises when road tripping.

kevinpet 4y ago
But not from a total lifecycle perspective. 100000 miles at 25 mpg at $5/gal is $20,000, and that's spread out over the ten years you drive those 100,000 miles. Add in another few thousand in extra maintenance costs for gasoline, subtract out a few thousand for the cost of charging at home, subtract out a bit more to get the charger installed, and for a full size car the fuel savings are about $12,000 up front. For compact cars comparable to cars that get better mileage, that's less.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  For compact cars it's a bit easier to win on TCO. You just get a Bolt and call it good. Pretty tough to beat the TCO there. I do agree that EVs have more coverage on the premium end of the market than in the low/mid tier. Though a Model 3 at about 40K is reasonably competitive in that segment.
jotm 4y ago
Where does the math work out? In much of Europe, charging instead of fueling is around 2x more expensive per KW of useful energy and that's with diesel/petrol being 2 Euros/Liter. And we're not even getting into the reduced range, availability of (fast) charging stations, availability of electric work vans, the cost of EVs, cost of repair/batteries, etc. Right now for the vast majority of people, EVs are frankly, ridiculously unaffordable.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  > Where does the math work out? I cannot speak for Europe. But in the US, gasoline is $3.51/gallon, electricity is $0.166/kWh. The average car gets 24.2 mpg. The average EV goes 2.9 miles/kWh. The average miles per year driven is 14263. So the average EV driver will spend about $100 per month less on fueling. But there's a lot of variability to that. You can buy a Chevy Bolt for $26.5K, it consumes 3.44 kWh/mi, and in Portland you can charge at night for $0.042/kWh. The lifetime fueling cost is less than one average new car payment. A quick google search suggests gasoline is approximately twice as expensive in Europe, electricity three times as expensive, and miles driven about half. The fueling cost will be much closer, but the EV still comes out ahead.

kevinpet 4y ago

But not from a total lifecycle perspective. 100000 miles at 25 mpg at $5/gal is $20,000, and that's spread out over the ten years you drive those 100,000 miles. Add in another few thousand in extra maintenance costs for gasoline, subtract out a few thousand for the cost of charging at home, subtract out a bit more to get the charger installed, and for a full size car the fuel savings are about $12,000 up front. For compact cars comparable to cars that get better mileage, that's less.

rootusrootus 4y ago
For compact cars it's a bit easier to win on TCO. You just get a Bolt and call it good. Pretty tough to beat the TCO there. I do agree that EVs have more coverage on the premium end of the market than in the low/mid tier. Though a Model 3 at about 40K is reasonably competitive in that segment.

jotm 4y ago

Where does the math work out? In much of Europe, charging instead of fueling is around 2x more expensive per KW of useful energy and that's with diesel/petrol being 2 Euros/Liter. And we're not even getting into the reduced range, availability of (fast) charging stations, availability of electric work vans, the cost of EVs, cost of repair/batteries, etc. Right now for the vast majority of people, EVs are frankly, ridiculously unaffordable.

rootusrootus 4y ago
> Where does the math work out? I cannot speak for Europe. But in the US, gasoline is $3.51/gallon, electricity is $0.166/kWh. The average car gets 24.2 mpg. The average EV goes 2.9 miles/kWh. The average miles per year driven is 14263. So the average EV driver will spend about $100 per month less on fueling. But there's a lot of variability to that. You can buy a Chevy Bolt for $26.5K, it consumes 3.44 kWh/mi, and in Portland you can charge at night for $0.042/kWh. The lifetime fueling cost is less than one average new car payment. A quick google search suggests gasoline is approximately twice as expensive in Europe, electricity three times as expensive, and miles driven about half. The fueling cost will be much closer, but the EV still comes out ahead.