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> It's loved by novices and those who don't know what they're doing, almost exclusively. They claim they know CSS, but will fail after any casual test. This

> It's loved by novices and those who don't know what they're doing, almost exclusively. They claim they know CSS, but will fail after any casual test. This is an incredibly silly take. As a senior frontend dev with almost 20 years of experience and a solid resume, I will take Tailwind over anything else in most cases. Obviously there is always exceptions based on the project needs, but to have such a hard take like this just cracks me up at how narrow minded it is.

hbn 4y ago
I really don't get the "tailwind is for beginners" opinion I see parroted so much. It doesn't enable you to do anything that CSS didn't already do. It's just a different way of writing it. Knowing CSS is a prerequisite to being able to use Tailwind. "Tailwind is for beginners" just sounds to me like "I don't like this thing because I'm too smart for it"
- anhner 4y ago
  > "Tailwind is for beginners" just sounds to me like "I don't like this thing because I'm too smart for it" More like "I don't like this thing because I don't understand it, so I blame it on juniors because I feel superior to them, so I must be right"
- waboremo 4y ago
  Because Tailwind is often suggested as a way for novices to implement design without having to really learn CSS. Simultaneously, allows people who don't care at all for CSS or design to create something functional. Tailwind does not require knowing CSS. It'll get you around tailwind faster if you do know it, but you do not have to care about what Tailwind is really up to when adding "outline outline-2 p-4 outline-offset-2". This is a major reason why people pick it up in the first place, to ignore CSS as much as possible.
  - danielvaughn 4y ago
    Tailwind absolutely requires knowing CSS. You cannot effectively use `outline-2` without understanding what an outline is.
    - mgkimsal 4y ago
      Millions of people know what an 'outline' is without knowing what CSS is. You might need a better example than 'outline'.
      - danielvaughn 4y ago
        They can't explain the difference between an outline and a border though, and especially can't explain when to use which. If you try to use Tailwind without understanding that, you're gonna have a Bad Time™.
  - hbn 4y ago
    > Because Tailwind is often suggested as a way for novices to implement design without having to really learn CSS Where are do you so frequently see that being suggested? I would never suggest that and I've never seen anyone say something like that before. Tailwind is not an alternative to CSS, it's a way of writing CSS.
  - greenhatman 4y ago
    Being bad at CSS is certainly why I love it. But that doesn't mean it's not a great tool for experienced frontend developers as well.
  - whazor 4y ago
    But almost every Tailwind shortcut translates to one line of CSS. So you need to know CSS, for example you understand words 'padding' and 'margin'. I did not know these words mean before learning CSS.
Retric 4y ago
I have 20 years of front end dev work and consider myself a CSS novice as I think the overwhelming majority of people are. If you haven’t read and understood the spec then like most people you don’t know CSS, which is fine. It’s not a question of knowing what say conic-gradient does, but how browsers use CSS in depth.
nirvdrum 4y ago
I've been doing front-end development in some capacity almost as long as you, but it's not my forte. I've looked at Tailwind and I can see its value as a way to quickly prototype, but it also looks to violate the deeply instilled belief I have about semantically named classes. I know front-end development has changed its set of best practices several times now. We went from unobtrusive JS and semantic class names to modular CSS and CSS in JS, along with heavily marked up HTML to help out JS frameworks. Maybe this is just the pendulum swinging again. But, I'd appreciate any insights you can share on how this helps lead to maintainable software. The string of utility class names on various elements doesn't click for me the same way a class named "sidebar" or whatever would. But, a lot of smart people like it, so I assume I must be missing or overlooking something.
- danielvaughn 4y ago
  I've been writing FE for 15 years and I'm in love with Tailwind. I never have to worry about naming, which in and of itself saves me a mountain of time. I had no idea just how much effort I spent on it until I stopped. Also, what I love about Tailwind is that it isn't an abstraction - the parent comment makes no sense because you can't use Tailwind without understanding CSS. But for those who do understand, it makes you so much more efficient, especially with a plugin like Tailwind Intellisense. Your HTML will be uglier and it will be more difficult to look at the elements panel to find the element you're looking for. Both of those things are super minor for me, and have almost no impact on my day-to-day.
- spoils19 4y ago
  Don't follow the hype and trust your own experiences and tooling. Tailwind can be good, but I get the sense that many commenters (not in this thread, however) may be paid actors in order to boost its mindshare.
- dimmke 4y ago
  This is so frustrating to read over and over. Tailwind uses PostCSS. You can literally wrap a bunch of utilities inside a semantic class name. Or, if you're using containers/writing components you can literally do something like this: https://pastebin.com/qkdzGWNT https://pastebin.com/qkdzGWNT But that a { could just as easily be "tag" Personally, I've always found BEM to be tedious and the sort of "roll your own" class names just doesn't scale. This approach scales. This is what we should be moving towards as an industry.

hbn 4y ago

I really don't get the "tailwind is for beginners" opinion I see parroted so much. It doesn't enable you to do anything that CSS didn't already do. It's just a different way of writing it. Knowing CSS is a prerequisite to being able to use Tailwind. "Tailwind is for beginners" just sounds to me like "I don't like this thing because I'm too smart for it"

anhner 4y ago
> "Tailwind is for beginners" just sounds to me like "I don't like this thing because I'm too smart for it" More like "I don't like this thing because I don't understand it, so I blame it on juniors because I feel superior to them, so I must be right"
waboremo 4y ago
Because Tailwind is often suggested as a way for novices to implement design without having to really learn CSS. Simultaneously, allows people who don't care at all for CSS or design to create something functional. Tailwind does not require knowing CSS. It'll get you around tailwind faster if you do know it, but you do not have to care about what Tailwind is really up to when adding "outline outline-2 p-4 outline-offset-2". This is a major reason why people pick it up in the first place, to ignore CSS as much as possible.
- danielvaughn 4y ago
  Tailwind absolutely requires knowing CSS. You cannot effectively use `outline-2` without understanding what an outline is.
  - mgkimsal 4y ago
    Millions of people know what an 'outline' is without knowing what CSS is. You might need a better example than 'outline'.
    - danielvaughn 4y ago
      They can't explain the difference between an outline and a border though, and especially can't explain when to use which. If you try to use Tailwind without understanding that, you're gonna have a Bad Time™.
- hbn 4y ago
  > Because Tailwind is often suggested as a way for novices to implement design without having to really learn CSS Where are do you so frequently see that being suggested? I would never suggest that and I've never seen anyone say something like that before. Tailwind is not an alternative to CSS, it's a way of writing CSS.
- greenhatman 4y ago
  Being bad at CSS is certainly why I love it. But that doesn't mean it's not a great tool for experienced frontend developers as well.
- whazor 4y ago
  But almost every Tailwind shortcut translates to one line of CSS. So you need to know CSS, for example you understand words 'padding' and 'margin'. I did not know these words mean before learning CSS.

Retric 4y ago

I have 20 years of front end dev work and consider myself a CSS novice as I think the overwhelming majority of people are. If you haven’t read and understood the spec then like most people you don’t know CSS, which is fine. It’s not a question of knowing what say conic-gradient does, but how browsers use CSS in depth.

nirvdrum 4y ago

I've been doing front-end development in some capacity almost as long as you, but it's not my forte. I've looked at Tailwind and I can see its value as a way to quickly prototype, but it also looks to violate the deeply instilled belief I have about semantically named classes. I know front-end development has changed its set of best practices several times now. We went from unobtrusive JS and semantic class names to modular CSS and CSS in JS, along with heavily marked up HTML to help out JS frameworks. Maybe this is just the pendulum swinging again. But, I'd appreciate any insights you can share on how this helps lead to maintainable software. The string of utility class names on various elements doesn't click for me the same way a class named "sidebar" or whatever would. But, a lot of smart people like it, so I assume I must be missing or overlooking something.

danielvaughn 4y ago
I've been writing FE for 15 years and I'm in love with Tailwind. I never have to worry about naming, which in and of itself saves me a mountain of time. I had no idea just how much effort I spent on it until I stopped. Also, what I love about Tailwind is that it isn't an abstraction - the parent comment makes no sense because you can't use Tailwind without understanding CSS. But for those who do understand, it makes you so much more efficient, especially with a plugin like Tailwind Intellisense. Your HTML will be uglier and it will be more difficult to look at the elements panel to find the element you're looking for. Both of those things are super minor for me, and have almost no impact on my day-to-day.
spoils19 4y ago
Don't follow the hype and trust your own experiences and tooling. Tailwind can be good, but I get the sense that many commenters (not in this thread, however) may be paid actors in order to boost its mindshare.
dimmke 4y ago
This is so frustrating to read over and over. Tailwind uses PostCSS. You can literally wrap a bunch of utilities inside a semantic class name. Or, if you're using containers/writing components you can literally do something like this: https://pastebin.com/qkdzGWNT https://pastebin.com/qkdzGWNT But that a { could just as easily be "tag" Personally, I've always found BEM to be tedious and the sort of "roll your own" class names just doesn't scale. This approach scales. This is what we should be moving towards as an industry.