4 ms·

for new programmers, the entry barrier for those languages is significantly greater than javascript. people don't quit learning programming because they're not

for new programmers, the entry barrier for those languages is significantly greater than javascript. people don't quit learning programming because they're not learning OOP- they quit because it's inaccessible.

hello_moto 15y ago
While that may be true (it's definitely take more steps to get your feet wet in Java), my experience with JS is otherwise until Node.JS arrives. I just don't have time to twiddle with document object (DOM API) just to see results.
- ricardobeat 15y ago
  Some people dont have time to twiddle with a crapload of OO abstractions/interfaces just to see results either.
  - hello_moto 15y ago
    Some people don't use that at all with Java for a simple academic assignment. Some people don't have time either to deal with scoping or the right way to do prototype in JS. We all should use QBasic...
rgbrgb 15y ago
Agreed. I also think that the reason a lot of us stuck with programming was because we loved the feeling of making something fun that we could play with. This is arguably a lot easier to do from the start with JavaScript than with Java or Python because one of the main applications of JavaScript is visual manipulation. Generally the first Java or Python programs you make are used from the command line. I think that when someone's starting out with something like programming, you want to put fun before "educational value" (correct OOP design principles) to give them that itch. I think using something like d3.js or processing.js would be a good place to start: http://mbostock.github.com/d3/tutorial/circle.html http://mbostock.github.com/d3/tutorial/circle.html That's a FUN tutorial that could easily dovetail into a larger project.
absconditus 15y ago
Let them quit. Many of us learned to program before the commercial Internet existed and at a time when desktop computers were not found in every home. If someone finds learning to programming to be "inaccessible" now then I rather that they not join our industry.

hello_moto 15y ago

While that may be true (it's definitely take more steps to get your feet wet in Java), my experience with JS is otherwise until Node.JS arrives. I just don't have time to twiddle with document object (DOM API) just to see results.

ricardobeat 15y ago
Some people dont have time to twiddle with a crapload of OO abstractions/interfaces just to see results either.
- hello_moto 15y ago
  Some people don't use that at all with Java for a simple academic assignment. Some people don't have time either to deal with scoping or the right way to do prototype in JS. We all should use QBasic...

rgbrgb 15y ago

Agreed. I also think that the reason a lot of us stuck with programming was because we loved the feeling of making something fun that we could play with. This is arguably a lot easier to do from the start with JavaScript than with Java or Python because one of the main applications of JavaScript is visual manipulation. Generally the first Java or Python programs you make are used from the command line. I think that when someone's starting out with something like programming, you want to put fun before "educational value" (correct OOP design principles) to give them that itch. I think using something like d3.js or processing.js would be a good place to start: http://mbostock.github.com/d3/tutorial/circle.html http://mbostock.github.com/d3/tutorial/circle.html That's a FUN tutorial that could easily dovetail into a larger project.

absconditus 15y ago

Let them quit. Many of us learned to program before the commercial Internet existed and at a time when desktop computers were not found in every home. If someone finds learning to programming to be "inaccessible" now then I rather that they not join our industry.