5 ms·

// it was often personally unfulfilling (e.g. tuning a parameter to make the business extra money). He lost me here. Something I've always loved about being an

// it was often personally unfulfilling (e.g. tuning a parameter to make the business extra money). He lost me here. Something I've always loved about being an engineer (and now in product) is that something small we do/tweak can have big impact. If you tuned a parameter and that actually had tangible impact on the business, that's like the best case scenario and should be celebrated (vs doing some cool rocket science stuff that ends up unused and doesn't matter)

cmmeur01 4y ago
And all that extra profit is hovered up by the people above you that had nothing to do with it. Validated engineering cost savings should be treated like sales, the engineer gets a percentage.
- Closi 4y ago
  > Validated engineering cost savings should be treated like sales, the engineer gets a percentage. If you want to really follow the same compensation structure, we would then give engineers a really low base salary and make 80% of their compensation performance dependent. Be careful what you wish for :) Besides - this would drive some strange incentive structures. If you incentivise people based on cloud savings for instance, it will really only be the teams with unnecessarily large cloud spend in the first place that ‘get’ that bonus. If you incentivise on sales, engineers doing great work on back office tools don’t get any cake. Etc.
  - clevergadget 4y ago
    Oh yeah also the pressure on a continuous basis where your value is only ever your last 3 mo average
    - Closi 4y ago
      Yep :) Big performance related bonuses sound great until you realise it also means you are heavily performance managed and most of your livelihood depends on your pipeline and actually closing sales. You are constantly looking off a cliff. Maybe you are on $150k per year today, but in three months time you are back to $45k per year because you didn’t make some minimum sales threshold. Might be fine for some people, but depending on your mortgage…
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- wittycardio 4y ago
  Engineers get paid much better than sales on average. You probably don't want such a variable compensation structure
adamsmith143 4y ago
If I work my ass off and my model recommends a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?
- belval 4y ago
  Un-ironically: the pride of a job well done? Most people in software on this site a very well paid and well treated, the least we can do is do our job right.
  - throwaway74829 4y ago
    Please speak for yourself. A comfortable cage does not inspire me to go above and beyond. I very much doubt my "going the extra mile" will really affect anyone at all in any major way. It may make some made up numbers go up -- or down -- but realistically it will have no major effect on anyone at all, except myself (and negatively). Whatever effect it elicits in another will be short-lived, and forgotten next quarter -- least of all recompensed sufficiently for the sacrifices made.
  - adamsmith143 4y ago
    Pride doesn't pay the bills my dude. Meanwhile my boss will probably get a nice bonus for boosting those KPIs. So I don't buy that one.
- ims 4y ago
  This guy is a straight-shooter with upper-management written all over him.

cmmeur01 4y ago

And all that extra profit is hovered up by the people above you that had nothing to do with it. Validated engineering cost savings should be treated like sales, the engineer gets a percentage.

Closi 4y ago
> Validated engineering cost savings should be treated like sales, the engineer gets a percentage. If you want to really follow the same compensation structure, we would then give engineers a really low base salary and make 80% of their compensation performance dependent. Be careful what you wish for :) Besides - this would drive some strange incentive structures. If you incentivise people based on cloud savings for instance, it will really only be the teams with unnecessarily large cloud spend in the first place that ‘get’ that bonus. If you incentivise on sales, engineers doing great work on back office tools don’t get any cake. Etc.
- clevergadget 4y ago
  Oh yeah also the pressure on a continuous basis where your value is only ever your last 3 mo average
  - Closi 4y ago
    Yep :) Big performance related bonuses sound great until you realise it also means you are heavily performance managed and most of your livelihood depends on your pipeline and actually closing sales. You are constantly looking off a cliff. Maybe you are on $150k per year today, but in three months time you are back to $45k per year because you didn’t make some minimum sales threshold. Might be fine for some people, but depending on your mortgage…
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
wittycardio 4y ago
Engineers get paid much better than sales on average. You probably don't want such a variable compensation structure

adamsmith143 4y ago

If I work my ass off and my model recommends a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?

belval 4y ago
Un-ironically: the pride of a job well done? Most people in software on this site a very well paid and well treated, the least we can do is do our job right.
- throwaway74829 4y ago
  Please speak for yourself. A comfortable cage does not inspire me to go above and beyond. I very much doubt my "going the extra mile" will really affect anyone at all in any major way. It may make some made up numbers go up -- or down -- but realistically it will have no major effect on anyone at all, except myself (and negatively). Whatever effect it elicits in another will be short-lived, and forgotten next quarter -- least of all recompensed sufficiently for the sacrifices made.
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  Pride doesn't pay the bills my dude. Meanwhile my boss will probably get a nice bonus for boosting those KPIs. So I don't buy that one.
ims 4y ago
This guy is a straight-shooter with upper-management written all over him.