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Operation Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods Recent enough for you? I’ll update

Operation Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods Recent enough for you? I’ll update with more federal government conspiracies when I’m not in mobile. Anyone that denies conspiracies exist knows no history…

ceejayoz 4y ago
No one denies conspiracies exist. As you note, plenty of conspiracies have demonstrably existed. "Conspiracies exist, therefore my pet conspiracy theory should be treated seriously by default" is the fallacy.
- mistermann 4y ago
  > "Conspiracies exist, therefore my pet conspiracy theory should be treated seriously by default" is the fallacy. I think it is worth mentioning that this fallacy manifests in at least two forms: 1. When a conspiracy theorist actually says it (I have never encountered it despite spending substantial amount of time in various conspiracy theory forums). As a general rule, when a non-conspiracy theorist is describing things that happen in the conspiracy world (where they do not go), it is safe to assume that they have lost control of their imagination, and this is usually extremely obvious from their description. See: https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/ https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism_(psychology... 2. When someone other than a conspiracy theorists imagines that a conspiracy theorist (typically also imagined, but not always) has said it or believes it (neither of which is required to true for it to be perceived as true). I don't see anything upthread that "the fallacy" could be referring to in this instance. It is perhaps also worth noting that "should be treated seriously by default" isn't actually all that bizarre (depending on the conspiracy theory, of course) - take something seriously is very different from believe to be necessarily true, though at the perceptual level things that are different can appear to be identical, and vice versa.
saalweachter 4y ago
> Kennedy rejected the Northwoods proposal. > Following presentation of the Northwoods plan, Kennedy removed Lemnitzer as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Sooooo ... your smoking gun is that someone at some point had a plan to do something that conspiracy theorists say happens all the time, and their plan was rejected and they were fired for suggesting it?
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  To be fair, the fact it got that far - as a proposal delivered by the JCS to the President - is itself concerning. That's not some dumb intern's daydream.

ceejayoz 4y ago

No one denies conspiracies exist. As you note, plenty of conspiracies have demonstrably existed. "Conspiracies exist, therefore my pet conspiracy theory should be treated seriously by default" is the fallacy.

mistermann 4y ago
> "Conspiracies exist, therefore my pet conspiracy theory should be treated seriously by default" is the fallacy. I think it is worth mentioning that this fallacy manifests in at least two forms: 1. When a conspiracy theorist actually says it (I have never encountered it despite spending substantial amount of time in various conspiracy theory forums). As a general rule, when a non-conspiracy theorist is describing things that happen in the conspiracy world (where they do not go), it is safe to assume that they have lost control of their imagination, and this is usually extremely obvious from their description. See: https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/ https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism_(psychology... 2. When someone other than a conspiracy theorists imagines that a conspiracy theorist (typically also imagined, but not always) has said it or believes it (neither of which is required to true for it to be perceived as true). I don't see anything upthread that "the fallacy" could be referring to in this instance. It is perhaps also worth noting that "should be treated seriously by default" isn't actually all that bizarre (depending on the conspiracy theory, of course) - take something seriously is very different from believe to be necessarily true, though at the perceptual level things that are different can appear to be identical, and vice versa.

saalweachter 4y ago

> Kennedy rejected the Northwoods proposal. > Following presentation of the Northwoods plan, Kennedy removed Lemnitzer as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Sooooo ... your smoking gun is that someone at some point had a plan to do something that conspiracy theorists say happens all the time, and their plan was rejected and they were fired for suggesting it?

ceejayoz 4y ago
To be fair, the fact it got that far - as a proposal delivered by the JCS to the President - is itself concerning. That's not some dumb intern's daydream.